Venezuala government approves changes to allow Chavez to run again

[another day]

Venezuela government approves changes to allow Chavez to run again

Venezuelan lawmakers voted to amend the country's constitution on Friday, a move that would give President Hugo Chavez more powers, including the ability to run for re-election indefinitely. The proposed changes have sparked protests throughout the country by those who believe they would violate civil liberties. On Thursday, thousands took to the streets, only to be dispersed by soldiers using tear gas, plastic bullets and water cannons.

Another oppressive dictatorship in the works. I can't believe chavez has the gall to behave as though he were some kind of champion of the people.

[tinybear]

And there are people who actually believe him!!!

[grandpa]

Quote by: tinybear And there are people who actually believe him!!!

Of course there are. There are people who believe any politician that comes along.

Grandpa h.

[Praxius]

They can still vote him out.... what's the big deal?

What's different about this then Bush's bill that can allow him to be dictator if an "emergancy" occured... or if he feels the next president coming into power will destabalize his efforts in Iraq? To me this seems more oppressive.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Praxius They can still vote him out.... what's the big deal?

The big deal is the system is now rigged toward dictatorship, and protestors were treated roughly. This is what you get under representative democracy, unfortunately.

Grandpa h.

[Milton Bradley]

I have trouble believing anybody could ask the constituents to vote on sixty seven constitutional ammendments at the same time. Mind boggling.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: another day Venezuela government approves changes to allow Chavez to run again Another oppressive dictatorship in the works. I can't believe chavez has the gall to behave as though he were some kind of champion of the people.

He is sort of the champion of the wretched poor. They are still poor but better off today than in the recent past.

When you live in poverty worrying about the governments abuse of liberties isn't that big a priority.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: HelioPrime When you live in poverty worrying about the governments abuse of liberties isn't that big a priority.

Hmmm, could have fooled me. ( Seeing as I'm exaclty as you describe, and it's my main priority in life. )

[Nono]

Helio is right. Chavez's military-macho traits have been coming increasingly to the fore, unfortunately. But he still has powerful support among the poor (and non-European) majority for whom he has done a great deal of unprecedented good, whatever his failings.

What amuses me is the profound concern about democracy and constitutional niceties in Venezuela shown by people who normally don't give a damn about what happens south of the US border, as long as their personal investments aren't threatened.

Strange that.

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Hmmm, could have fooled me. ( Seeing as I'm exaclty as you describe, and it's my main priority in life. )

I don't mean to insult you but would you tell the people of venerzuala that they should concern themselves more with civil liberties than feeding their families?

Better to die of hunger with liberties intact or to live well feed but oppresed?

[Thanatos]

I don't like Chavez. I think his intentions started out sound, but over the years he's gone from hero of the people to more than a bit repressive and hypocritical. Militarily he doesn't worry me; he's not that sort of megalomaniac, not yet at least.

[BobbyO]

Quote by: HelioPrime I don't mean to insult you but would you tell the people of venerzuala that they should concern themselves more with civil liberties than feeding their families? Better to die of hunger with liberties intact or to live well feed but oppresed?

Yep. Its one reason that democracy (representative or otherwise) is not the best defender of liberty.

[another day]

Quote by: Praxius They can still vote him out.... what's the big deal? What's different about this then Bush's bill that can allow him to be dictator if an "emergancy" occured... or if he feels the next president coming into power will destabalize his efforts in Iraq? To me this seems more oppressive.

Stop this. Just because someone expresses one negative opinion about something doesn't mean they support the percieved opposite of it.

As for what's the big deal, this is how dictatorships start. Sure, the image is still there of there being a democracy, but these bills are being passed to gradually erode that and ensure chavez can hold power for ever. It starts with this, and ends with the elimination of all opposing parties and candidates so that you HAVE to vote for chavez.

[Praxius]

Ah, I see that the protests are continuing though (Last I checked) so it shows that the people of the country are healthy with their patriotism and know what needs to be done..... good for them.

Of course if they sucked it up too.... I'd still say good for them... they decide how they want to go.

[Praxius]

Quote by: another day Stop this. Just because someone expresses one negative opinion about something doesn't mean they support the percieved opposite of it.

Actually no I won't stop it.... if you're gonna go and start critisizing another nation and how things are run, without even bothering to address the same issues in your own country, then all I see are a bunch of blow hards. You're pointing fingers at a soon to be dictatorship and shaking your heads with disapointment, yet just letting the same thing go on outside your doors.

At least these guys have a pair to get out on the streets and make things happen.

As for what's the big deal, this is how dictatorships start. Sure, the image is still there of there being a democracy, but these bills are being passed to gradually erode that and ensure chavez can hold power for ever. It starts with this, and ends with the elimination of all opposing parties and candidates so that you HAVE to vote for chavez.

Wow.... and what have I just been saying about your own country? Deal with your own issues first, then you earn the place to bitch about others doing similar things.

As for me... meh... they seem to know what they need to be doing right now.

[The Decider]

Quote by: Praxius Actually no I won't stop it.... if you're gonna go and start critisizing another nation and how things are run, without even bothering to address the same issues in your own country, then all I see are a bunch of blow hards. You're pointing fingers at a soon to be dictatorship and shaking your heads with disapointment, yet just letting the same thing go on outside your doors.

How do you know if another day--or a number of Volconvo Americans (assuming a.d. is an American)--haven't actively opposed the Bush bill you mentioned? Yet you would lecture them about what countries they can or can not criticise and call them collective "blowhards?" That's chutzpah.

[Praxius]

Quote by: The Decider How do you know if another day--or a number of Volconvo Americans (assuming a.d. is an American)--haven't actively opposed the Bush bill you mentioned? Yet you would lecture them about what countries they can or can not criticise and call them collective "blowhards?" That's chutzpah.

Wow... you oppose it... but here we are, all sitting on our asses doing nothing about it... just saying we oppose it and complain and complain and moan and whine.... therefore a blowhard in that retrospect... the difference though is that I don't live in the US, so I can't really complain and whine for you guys, let alone stand up and go protest and get bush's ass fired... it's your country.... do something about it, or loose it.

These guys have taken to the streets in protest, and are still doing so regardless of police oppression.... yet you guys won't even go this far, and Bush knows it, you all know it... therefore blowhards.

I'm now lecturing you about you lecturing me about how I am lecturing you guys about lecturing them.... fun isn't it?

[The Decider]

Quote by: Praxius Wow... you oppose it... but here we are, all sitting on our asses doing nothing about it... just saying we oppose it and complain and complain and moan and whine.... therefore a blowhard in that retrospect... the difference though is that I don't live in the US, so I can't really complain and whine for you guys, let alone stand up and go protest and get bush's ass fired... it's your country.... do something about it, or loose it.

More assumptions and overgeneralizations about "you guys." Thanks for the pep talk, I guess.

Quote by: Praxius These guys have taken to the streets in protest, and are still doing so regardless of police oppression.... yet you guys won't even go this far, and Bush knows it, you all know it... therefore blowhards.

Again, you have no idea who at Volconvo has or hasn't protested what.

Quote by: Praxius I'm now lecturing you about you lecturing me about how I am lecturing you guys about lecturing them.... fun isn't it?

Yeah, derailing a thread sometimes is fun, I must admit.

[tinybear]

Quote by: HelioPrime He is sort of the champion of the wretched poor. They are still poor but better off today than in the recent past. When you live in poverty worrying about the governments abuse of liberties isn't that big a priority.

That's what the CCP keeps telling us in China. :)

[bishop]

roughly 1 year ago, his rubber stamp legislature granted him the power to rule by decree. he's been a dictator for a while now, this isn't some sudden shift here..