Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Autolykos · Oct 25, 2007, 09:27 am

Probe finds Taser use on student was OK - Yahoo! News

Quote:

GAINESVILLE, Fla. - University of Florida police were justified in using a Taser against a student who refused to stop questioning Sen. John Kerry on campus last month, according to a state investigation released Wednesday.

Some had questioned the use of force in using the stun gun against Andrew Meyer, leading to the investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. A summary of the agency's report was released Wednesday.

"In short, the FDLE determined that our officers acted well within state guidelines," university President Bernie Machen said in a letter to students, faculty and staff members.
[Emphasis added.]

Quite simply, the state guidelines should be called into question.

It's interesting how such findings are intended to placate people who protest such actions. Basically the authorities in question respond by saying what was done was, in fact, legitimate. Since the protesters rarely question the authorities themselves, they accept this dictum and move on.

Update: Apparently, the officers' own department performed the investigation. Should it be any surprise that, effectively speaking, they would declare themselves innocent? :rolleyes:

- Rob

Osborn F Enready · Oct 25, 2007, 10:09 am

Thanks for the update Rob, and no, no suprises.

I agree they should call the "State Guidelines" into question.

Milton Bradley · Oct 25, 2007, 12:21 pm

The question of who watching the watchers is popping up all around the country.

Clearly there is just little resembling America to care about any more.

ZNFYRH · Oct 25, 2007, 12:25 pm

Agreed, no surprise it was found justified.

It's a tough call, though, if you think about it.

He was asked to stop a certain behavior and he continued. He kept pushing and pushing until he had to be removed. He was still being loud and the officers used a non-lethal method to subdue him enough to remove him physically from the building.

He wasn't a threat and the means of subduing were non-lethal and, having been tasered before, temporary.

They probably didn't have to taser him, but if the state guidelines say it was acceptable, then the officers didn't do anything wrong.

Again... it's a tough call when the law allows something that seems extreme.

This kid was something of an exhibitionist and a rabble-rouser. I was entertained by the video of his tasering... not because I didn't like him... but just because the older grown-up in me finds his type annoying.

He could have chosen a dozen other ways to conduct himself that weren't so disruptive.

tinybear · Oct 25, 2007, 01:04 pm

Guidelines are dead. People are alive and dealing with live situations.

Osborn F Enready · Oct 25, 2007, 02:08 pm

The cops could have cuffed the kid, without a taser.

The use of the Taser was simply unnecessary.

tinybear · Oct 25, 2007, 02:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

The cops could have cuffed the kid, without a taser.

The use of the Taser was simply unnecessary.

I think so too.

ZNFYRH · Oct 25, 2007, 02:52 pm

Having used a taser on someone before... in a situation where it really was necessary... I have to say that using the taser on that kid was unnecessary, legal, and probably very funny.

He was being an annoying pain in the ass, and I think that if I were one of the officers there I would have enjoyed using it if I knew I was within the guidelines to do so.

Again... it doesn't make it morally right... but it sucks that the guidelines allow it for something so minor.

Chaossaber314 · Oct 25, 2007, 03:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

The cops could have cuffed the kid, without a taser.

The use of the Taser was simply unnecessary.

I highly doubt you've ever handcuffed someone flailing around before.

Quote:

Quote by: Auto

Update: Apparently, the officers' own department performed the investigation. Should it be any surprise that, effectively speaking, they would declare themselves innocent?

So there's misconduct on the part of the investigators unless they find the officer's guilty of misconduct?

As far as the investigation is concerned, if the tased student has a problem with it, he can sue and ask for a change of venue if he's so worried that local law enforcement will influence the results.

Quote:

Since the protesters rarely question the authorities themselves, they accept this dictum and move on.

Would you elaborate on what you mean here? I find that one of the ONLY thing protesters do is question authority. Sometimes to the point of absurdity.

Jubloz · Oct 25, 2007, 04:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

The cops could have cuffed the kid, without a taser.

The use of the Taser was simply unnecessary.

Agreed.

Dieval · Oct 25, 2007, 05:02 pm

Does anyone know what exactly the guidelines say? I'm sure there's nothing specific in regards to harrasing a Senator, but there is probably something for not following a lawful order given by a police officer.

"Don't tase me bro!" :rolleyes:

Ironcandle · Oct 25, 2007, 07:30 pm

The cops were TOTALLY right in tasering that kid. He was disruptive, resisted, disobeyed instructions, and out of control.

I would have loved to have been there, it looked funny as hell.

pahl · Oct 25, 2007, 07:58 pm

There is a chance he could have died from the tazer, even without a pacemaker. And the cops had no way of knowing if he had any condition that could have drasticly increased the risk of death.

Why not just cuff him and and drag him out, does anyone believe that the 7-8 something cops could not hold him down?

Chaossaber314 · Oct 25, 2007, 09:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Pahl

There is a chance he could have died from the tazer, even without a pacemaker.

And there's probably an equally slim chance they could have broken his neck taking him to the ground as is standard when someone resists being handcuffed. What's your point?

tivodan1116 · Oct 25, 2007, 09:42 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Ironcandle

The cops were TOTALLY right in tasering that kid. He was disruptive, resisted, disobeyed instructions, and out of control.

None of which is justification for the escalation of force to harmful but "nonlethal" weapons.

The only justification for that escalation is the escalation, or threat of escalation, by the person they are attempting to apprehend.

The ONLY goal of police work in this area is the safe apprehension of the suspect. TASERs are a force equalizer, when it is 6 or 7 police officers on one unarmed suspect, there is no need to equalize force to make a safe apprehension.

By any reasonable theory of law enforcement their force was excessive.

The Decider · Oct 25, 2007, 10:58 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Autolykos

Update: Apparently, the officers' own department performed the investigation. Should it be any surprise that, effectively speaking, they would declare themselves innocent? :rolleyes:

- Rob

According to the article, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) issued the report. Did the FDLE not conduct the investigation?

What are the Florida "state guidelines" on police tasers?

grandpa · Oct 26, 2007, 11:31 am

Quote:

Quote by: Ironcandle

The cops were TOTALLY right in tasering that kid. He was disruptive, resisted, disobeyed instructions, and out of control.

I would have loved to have been there, it looked funny as hell.

You are undoubtedly a sadist, then--primed and ready for a popular police state.

As I've argued before, it was Meyer who had his questions disrupted. The police started acting against him first. He was not "out of control." It was the police that started manhandling him, right around when Kerry was preparing to answer the questions. Meyer reacted the way a lot of people would react when you're being crowded by people, and he asked why he was being arrested. That's not "trying to incite a riot" like the police report charged (the police report clearly lied).

The officers responded in a very uncivilized way. One can go to a lot of Q&A sesssions and find people behaving somewhat like Meyer, asking unconfortable questions and whatnot. However, not everyone gets tased.

A lot of this has to do with the delusion that free speech shouldn't exist in "private" places, which is actually just another argument for tyrannical actions.

Grandpa h.

Autolykos · Oct 27, 2007, 11:45 am

Quote:

Quote by: The Decider

According to the article, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) issued the report. Did the FDLE not conduct the investigation?

Actually, you're right. My update was inaccurate. I stand corrected.

Quote:

What are the Florida "state guidelines" on police tasers?

Good question. Let me find out and get back to you.

- Rob

Osborn F Enready · Oct 27, 2007, 12:08 pm

Quote:

Chaos said:
I highly doubt you've ever handcuffed someone flailing around before.

I suppose that has some type of relevance?

Why does handcuffing require some type of "education" other than physcial control techniques similar to that of self-defense?

If someone has not performed an act, are they unqualified to comment on rules, regulations or pertinent information regarding that act?

brien · Oct 30, 2007, 04:04 pm

The freeking guy could have been hustled out of the room by the cops.

Does any reasonable person think they couldn't have controlled this guy without a taser? Who was he anyway The Hulk? I don't think so...

Give me a break. They tasered him because they probably knew they could get away with it. They took the easy way out for themselves. I say the guy should sue them for police brutality.

"Don't sue me bro"

Oct 25, 2007, 10:09 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	Thanks for the update Rob, and no, no suprises. I agree they should call the "State Guidelines" into question. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Oct 25, 2007, 12:25 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Agreed, no surprise it was found justified. It's a tough call, though, if you think about it. He was asked to stop a certain behavior and he continued. He kept pushing and pushing until he had to be removed. He was still being loud and the officers used a non-lethal method to subdue him enough to remove him physically from the building. He wasn't a threat and the means of subduing were non-lethal and, having been tasered before, temporary. They probably didn't have to taser him, but if the state guidelines say it was acceptable, then the officers didn't do anything wrong. Again... it's a tough call when the law allows something that seems extreme. This kid was something of an exhibitionist and a rabble-rouser. I was entertained by the video of his tasering... not because I didn't like him... but just because the older grown-up in me finds his type annoying. He could have chosen a dozen other ways to conduct himself that weren't so disruptive. IT'S A BOY!!

Oct 25, 2007, 02:08 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	The cops could have cuffed the kid, without a taser. The use of the Taser was simply unnecessary. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Oct 25, 2007, 02:52 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
ZNFYRH Volcanic Erupter Posts: 4,375	Having used a taser on someone before... in a situation where it really was necessary... I have to say that using the taser on that kid was unnecessary, legal, and probably very funny. He was being an annoying pain in the ass, and I think that if I were one of the officers there I would have enjoyed using it if I knew I was within the guidelines to do so. Again... it doesn't make it morally right... but it sucks that the guidelines allow it for something so minor. IT'S A BOY!!

Oct 25, 2007, 05:02 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Dieval Right of Center Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,759	Does anyone know what exactly the guidelines say? I'm sure there's nothing specific in regards to harrasing a Senator, but there is probably something for not following a lawful order given by a police officer. "Don't tase me bro!" :rolleyes: "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." -- Winston Churchill

Oct 25, 2007, 12:21 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	The question of who watching the watchers is popping up all around the country. Clearly there is just little resembling America to care about any more.

Oct 25, 2007, 01:04 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,017	Guidelines are dead. People are alive and dealing with live situations.

Oct 25, 2007, 07:30 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Ironcandle Ummmm, probably not. Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 7	The cops were TOTALLY right in tasering that kid. He was disruptive, resisted, disobeyed instructions, and out of control. I would have loved to have been there, it looked funny as hell. "It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for." - Will Rogers

Oct 25, 2007, 07:58 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
pahl Igneous Magma Location: Sweden Posts: 261	There is a chance he could have died from the tazer, even without a pacemaker. And the cops had no way of knowing if he had any condition that could have drasticly increased the risk of death. Why not just cuff him and and drag him out, does anyone believe that the 7-8 something cops could not hold him down?

Oct 30, 2007, 04:04 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
brien Iceberg Location: Connecticut Posts: 5,691	The freeking guy could have been hustled out of the room by the cops. Does any reasonable person think they couldn't have controlled this guy without a taser? Who was he anyway The Hulk? I don't think so... Give me a break. They tasered him because they probably knew they could get away with it. They took the easy way out for themselves. I say the guy should sue them for police brutality. "Don't sue me bro" Brien the Iceberg If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything. M.T.