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shrike · Sep 30, 2007, 09:48 am

The Associated Press: Kurdish Rebels Kill 12 in Turkey

Quote:

Kurdish rebels ambushed a minibus carrying pro-government village guards and civilians in southeastern Turkey and killed 12 people on Saturday, a local official said.

The rebels armed with machine guns attacked the minibus in Sirnak province near the border with Iraq, killing seven village guards and five civilians, governor Selahattin Apari said. Two civilians were injured and were rushed to nearby hospitals in military helicopters, Apari's office said in a statement.
...
Turkey has pondered a cross-border military operation to root out the members of the Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, holed up in the mountainous areas of northern Iraq. However, the United States _a close ally of Ankara_ objected to such a move, fearing it could destabilize the relatively calm part of Iraq.

Kurdish lawmakers in Iraq also oppose any military move by Turkey across the border.

The PKK is labeled a terrorist organization by the U.S. and the European Union. The group has been fighting for autonomy since 1984 and tens of thousands have been killed in the conflict.

Another non-US thread.So what do you think about this.Should Kurds get their own state?

thx1138 · Sep 30, 2007, 10:45 am

I think so.

Turkey and Iraq should come to some agreement with Kurdish areas it maybe prevent a future war in the area.

shrike · Sep 30, 2007, 10:57 am

The prolem that they claim land of many states.And I dont see how all the countries willingly will forfeit thier terottories

So violence will continue it seems.

bishop · Sep 30, 2007, 12:07 pm

sad thing is that this wouldn't even be an issue had bush not have decided to attack iraq.

personally, i'm indifferent towards the idea of a kurdish state in the sense that i don't believe we should take a position on the issue. we should focus on maintaining the integrity of iraq's borders and provide an avenue for diplomatic resolution.

one thing that seems inevitable to me is that several countries will invade iraq whenever we leave. the turks, iranians and saudis in particular.

Milton Bradley · Sep 30, 2007, 04:15 pm

The lines on the map that have traditionally been respected ( in our lifetimes ) were drawn on the map by a bunch of Europeans. I say let them have self determination, and decide for themselves how to partition that land.

This is a perfect example of the depth of the meddling by foreigners in the policies in that part of the world. It should also help to justify why some people in that part of the world are so angry with the people meddling in their affairs.

shrike · Sep 30, 2007, 04:18 pm

Quote:

. I say let them have self determination, and decide for themselves how to partition that land.

Do you think it would be peacufull?

Milton Bradley · Sep 30, 2007, 04:20 pm

I suspect not, but would that justify preventing them from determining their own future?

I think this is basically where we differ in our philosophies.

shrike · Sep 30, 2007, 04:28 pm

Quote:

Quote by: milton

I suspect not, but would that justify preventing them from determining their own future?

No of course not. In what case do you think that international community should step in? Do you think it should step in case of mass genocide like Ruanda or Darfur?

Quote:

I think this is basically where we differ in our philosophies

Maybe its because you nation was not slaughtered and world didn't care about it.

Gods_Mercenary · Sep 30, 2007, 05:33 pm

Giving in to nationalism has an historically bad record of working out, but, then, so does ignoring it.

bishop · Sep 30, 2007, 05:42 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Milton Bradley

The lines on the map that have traditionally been respected ( in our lifetimes ) were drawn on the map by a bunch of Europeans. I say let them have self determination, and decide for themselves how to partition that land.

This is a perfect example of the depth of the meddling by foreigners in the policies in that part of the world. It should also help to justify why some people in that part of the world are so angry with the people meddling in their affairs.

some acts of meddling are acceptable, and preventing a full-blown regional war is one of them imo. this war could conceivably include turkey, iran, iraq, afghanistan, jordan, saudi arabia - and maybe even israel & syria.. the countries involved can't be expected to be any better than our own - and most likely worse, imo.

BobbyO · Sep 30, 2007, 06:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: bishop

sad thing is that this wouldn't even be an issue had bush not have decided to attack iraq.

personally, i'm indifferent towards the idea of a kurdish state in the sense that i don't believe we should take a position on the issue. we should focus on maintaining the integrity of iraq's borders and provide an avenue for diplomatic resolution.

one thing that seems inevitable to me is that several countries will invade iraq whenever we leave. the turks, iranians and saudis in particular.

Its been an issue since WW I. Turkey (primarily), but also Iran, Iraq and Syria have always had issues with their Kurdish minority.

Sep 30, 2007, 10:45 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
thx1138 superStructure Posts: 627	I think so. Turkey and Iraq should come to some agreement with Kurdish areas it maybe prevent a future war in the area. Aldous Huxley speech at berkley http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/VideoTest/hux1.ram Q&A: http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/VideoTest/hux2.ram

Sep 30, 2007, 12:07 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	sad thing is that this wouldn't even be an issue had bush not have decided to attack iraq. personally, i'm indifferent towards the idea of a kurdish state in the sense that i don't believe we should take a position on the issue. we should focus on maintaining the integrity of iraq's borders and provide an avenue for diplomatic resolution. one thing that seems inevitable to me is that several countries will invade iraq whenever we leave. the turks, iranians and saudis in particular. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Sep 30, 2007, 05:33 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Gods_Mercenary Altruism Assassin Location: Massachusetts Posts: 5,325	Giving in to nationalism has an historically bad record of working out, but, then, so does ignoring it. “Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.” -Albert Einstein

Sep 30, 2007, 10:57 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
shrike Volcanic Erupter Location: Israel Posts: 2,775	The prolem that they claim land of many states.And I dont see how all the countries willingly will forfeit thier terottories So violence will continue it seems.

Sep 30, 2007, 04:15 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	The lines on the map that have traditionally been respected ( in our lifetimes ) were drawn on the map by a bunch of Europeans. I say let them have self determination, and decide for themselves how to partition that land. This is a perfect example of the depth of the meddling by foreigners in the policies in that part of the world. It should also help to justify why some people in that part of the world are so angry with the people meddling in their affairs.

Sep 30, 2007, 04:20 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Milton Bradley BANNED Location: Ohio Province, Rep. of Comerica Posts: 7,320	I suspect not, but would that justify preventing them from determining their own future? I think this is basically where we differ in our philosophies.