'Death to Canada,' outraged Afghans chant

[Praxius]

'Death to Canada,' outraged Afghans chant

Hundreds of enraged Afghans chanting "death to Canada" blocked a highway Wednesday following a raid by foreign troops that left two religious leaders dead. Protesters accused Canadian and American soldiers of killing the two during raids overnight Tuesday on houses in Senjaray, a community on the outskirts of Kandahar city. It is in the Zhari district, a hotbed of Taliban activity west of the city. About 500 protesters shut down the main highway out of Kandahar city about 7 a.m. local time with some chanting "death to Canada" and "death to foreigners," and calling on foreign troops to leave the country. Canadian military officials have denied involvement in the raids by both their own soldiers and NATO's. One Afghan man at the protest told CBC News that he had guests in his house when soldiers burst into the building. "The soldiers tied their hands and feet, covered their eyes and took them away," he said. Another witness said the raids were by American and Canadian soldiers, who took eight people and killed two. "They're killing our young men," one protester told an interpreter for the Canadian Press. "The day is not far when these innocent civilians will stand against NATO and other foreign troops." Witnesses also told the Canadian Press that known members of the Taliban were at the demonstration. In the end, Afghan elders in the district quelled the protest. Civilian deaths Anger was also directed at Afghan President Hamid Karzai for allowing the international presence in the country, and protesters condemned Afghan intelligence officers for corruption and extortion. "Their informers are giving them wrong information," one protester told CP, referring to the information that led to the raids. "It is disgusting." International forces have come under scathing criticism for civilian casualties in Afghanistan, and Karzai has said they undermine efforts to win the trust of the people. Although verification is extremely difficult as fighting continues, independent counts of civilian deaths by the United Nations and the Associated Press suggest that about 600 civilians have been killed so far this year by both sides. The international coalition says the Taliban has falsely reported civilian deaths in order to discredit foreign troops and undermine their efforts with the public. Co-ordination sought Zhari district chief Habib Sanzarai told Al-Jazeera that foreign forces should co-ordinate operations with Afghan security forces "in order to avoid misunderstanding." "If these actions against ordinary people are not stopped, more people will pick up arms and will fight the government and its foreign allies for justice." Zhari district is the birthplace of the Taliban movement and an area where Canadian forces have been concentrating recent operations on re-establishing control. Habibullah Jan, a lawmaker from Sanzari village, told the Associated Press that NATO forces were responsible for the deaths. He warned that if international forces continued to target civilians, "people will take up arms against the government and NATO."

Which is a given, as Iraq is a prime example...... but something about this does not add up.



Most missions involving US or Canadian troops in Afghanistan have rarely had both countries working together in a joint mission. Most of our missions and support comes from the Dutch and the UK, while the US have France and Germany backing them up.

Also, every incident that our troops have been involved in thus far (Well to my knowlege) has been explained and detailed on what was going on, who we were after and our objectives.

Our forces outright claiming no involvement in this situation would either be the truth, or one very bad decision to lie, where in the past with civilian casualties, those incidences have been explained.

In this situation, normally someone in authority would state that a raid was being conducted on suspected Taliban strongholds, detail captures, kills, and anything else of importance...... but there isn't anything like that now..... just denial....

And the fact that there were known Taliban in the group of protestors and them detailing the incident in a way that sounds quite similar to Taliban tactics, this seems more like Taliban PR Propaganda.

And besides the fact that our troops in the last year or two have been very dilligent in whom they target, this just doesn't make any sense.

[Dieval]

Haha, I love this....Canadian troops are "very diligent", while US troops are "friggin morons"(quote from Prax in another thread).....

[Praxius]

Yup.... indeed they are morons. Would you like me to re-explain why? Sure.....

Canada's primary role of engagement has concerns of civilian injuries and casualties for their military decisions. We're currently in one of Afghanistan's worse Provinces, and the more we show we have little care for the safety of the people we are there to protect, the more of them that turn Taliban. When a situation such as this occurs, or there is a report of a civilian casualty by Canadian forces, as I have clearly shown here in the forums since I came here, Canadian Officials layout what happened in the said situation.

We realize, unlike your military in Iraq and Afghanistan, due to plain ignorance, that if we don't step up our tactic to involve the safety of Afghans as best as possible, then we only fuel the Taliban more, more people will hate the occupiers, and more families and afghans will join the Taliban, therefore extending our pressence there.

We have been complaining to NATO countries to step up their forces for assistence, but for the last couple of years, we got squat, so since we're on the frontlines in Kandahar, with very little support Number wise, we have no choice but to be diligent.

Also, our troops did not enter Afghanistan on the goals of Conquring them, like the US. Our Military Efforts as history would show have never been for personal profit or gains, but based on principles and humanity...... unlike you.

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Now let's turn over to US Engagement Tactics:

In the last several reports I have posted here in regards to civilian casualties in Afghanistan by US forces (not including in Iraq) most were by air strike on compounds assumed to have their targets in. There has been no regard for the civilians nearby the target, and as your own commanders stated, if they're harboring the Taliban, they deserve what they get......

.....Even though villages have very little to their disposal for removing the Taliban if they wish to occupy their villages. So what happens?

The US officials are informed by Afghan villages that Taliban have taken back their village and want security from them from NATO forces, as NATO doesn't have enough troops on ground to keep a continual patrol over all the country.

What happens? You guys fly in with and air strike and level everything in the general location of the target, injuring and/or killing the villagers whom asked for your help.

Big Difference.... Hence.... MORONS.

Now anyways..... back to topic, do you have anything useful to add to the original topic, or are you just here to try and annoy me with your ignorance of the big picture?

[Dieval]

Hahaha, this is great... "our troops did not enter Afghanistan on the goals of Conquring them, like the US"... Go back and do your home work before you make completely asinine comments like this..

[Thanatos]

There are several things that might be going on here. I have been watching carefully, and Al-Quaeda knows how to fight a war for hearts and minds. Early in the war they were setting off bombs in crowded marketplaces and telling the general populace that it was a U.S. missile.

I really wouldn't put it past them to stage something a bit more elaborate. You don't even need Canadian and NATO uniforms, you just need people who say they saw Canadian and NATO uniforms and tell their friends about it...

Or it could be that the Canadian military is completely full of it. Or it could be that a group of Canadian soldiers did something bad without telling their superiors while on patrol. The sad thing about war is that nobody ever really knows what's going on. The even sadder thing is that one has to be very naive to trust any party in this conflict implicitly.

[The Decider]

Does this mean that my fake Canadian passport won't save my life now? Damn. Anyone selling a fake Hungarian passport? Estonian?

[Chaossaber314]

I think Dieval has a point here, Praxius. For all you know this was an admittedly isolated incident of Canadian soldiers doing something wrong. If it were US soldiers you would immediately, condemn all 170k like they were all in on it. That's not saying that these guys are guilty or that US soldiers are not guilty of any other crimes, but to immediately and radically profess their innocense based solely on their nationality is entirely premature and biased.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Chaossaber314 I think Dieval has a point here, Praxius. For all you know this was an admittedly isolated incident of Canadian soldiers doing something wrong. If it were US soldiers you would immediately, condemn all 170k like they were all in on it. That's not saying that these guys are guilty or that US soldiers are not guilty of any other crimes, but to immediately and radically profess their innocense based solely on their nationality is entirely premature and biased.

Not once have I wanted their blood or condem them all.... I am usually pissed about the situation and the carelessness that came about in the situation.... and usually I am angered by the lack of information from US comanders on these sort of things, which makes the afghan people loose even more trust.

As you may be aware by now, I read the news and what I find here and there very often. I see everyday they report any incident, upcoming objective, information on an ambush, the reported wounded, killed, numbers of enemies, etc etc....

Normally one would have heard of this incident occuring or about to occur, and then later when this sort of thing occurs, those details come about after they're doing the tallys where they will inform how many suspected taliban were killed, allies, civilians, etc.

But this was just a bunch of protestors coming out and claiming a raid occured. Now I am fully aware that there are still plenty of operations that don't hit the web or the news..... but one key factor in this, is the actual denial of involvement.

It's not one of those "There was an operation but we're not about to disclose such sensitive information at this time." It's a "We don't know wtf their talking about."

The fact that it occured on the outskirts of Kandahar, and as they explain is the hotbed of the Taliban's influence, not to mention multiple well known Taliban operatives in the crowd..... even if it was just your troops in this situation, the information doesn't add up, even you should see that.

And I'm defending your troops here by the way..... just in case you thought I'm always out for you guys.