'150 countries more corrupt than Israel'

[SuperSahar]

why must jewish people use the "anti-semite card" everytime someone comments on israel....every state has flaws, you can't just go and call someone an anti-semite because they've pointed a flaw out

[shrike]

Quote by: sahar why must jewish people use the "anti-semite card" everytime someone comments on israel....every state has flaws, you can't just go and call someone an anti-semite because they've pointed a flaw out

I think all the rhetoric about that "anyone that criticize Israel is anti-Semite" is a straw man. Anyway who called you anti-Semite in this forum?

[SuperSahar]

no one because i am not

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: SuperSahar no one because i am not

Get too critical of Israel and you will be labeled... you will see...

[shrike]

Quote by: PH Get too critical of Israel and you will be labeled... you will see...

Well if she would deny existence of Jewish state and post propaganda articles from Holocaust denial sites I would call her anti-Semite because it’s a right label for such person.

[PatrickHenry]

The use of unapproved sources will get you labeled, see, Sahar.

And saying Israel is an illegal occupier of other people's lands will get you labeled, see?

[shrike]

Quote by: PH The use of unapproved sources will get you labeled, see, Sahar.

These sites are approved for bigots that for sure. If you holocaust denier you an anti-Semite because only those who hate Jews could deny holocaust or diminish it somehow.And its nothing have to do with Israel.

And saying Israel is an illegal occupier of other people's lands will get you labeled, see?

If you deny existence of Jewish state you an anti-Semite as if you deny existence of Palestinian state you an anti-Palestinian. It’s pretty simple.

[PatrickHenry]

There is no Palestinian state.

Am I antiPalestinian, now?

And the Holocaust, like any other historical event is debatable. Questioning the various approved and accepted versions is by no means antiSemitic.

But it's a crime in Germany. So don't go there if you think that various aspects of the approved and accepted version are questionable and have said so...

Interesting the Zionist aversion to free speech...

[grandpa]

Quote by: shrike These sites are approved for bigots that for sure. If you holocaust denier you an anti-Semite because only those who hate Jews could deny holocaust or diminish it somehow.

I don't recall anyone in this thread denying the Holocaust. In fact, you can see how concerned Volconvo-ites are about Hitler-ism by considering how he is virtually always regraded as symbolizing pure evil.

These postings of yours are quite useful in illustrating how NOT to debate.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: PatrickHenry There is no Palestinian state. Am I antiPalestinian, now?

I don't want a Palestinian state period--which must mean I hate all Palestinians.

As for the Holocaust, I'm not interested in debating it with anyone.

Grandpa h.

[shrike]

There is no Palestinian state. Am I antiPalestinian, now?

No If you not again the existence of such.

And the Holocaust, like any other historical event is debatable. Questioning the various approved and accepted versions is by no means antiSemitic.

I noticed that only one that question Holocaust is usually anti-Semites and again existence of Jewish state. Genocide denial is a crime in many western democracies and rightly so because it a hate speech.
Saying all this there is nothing wrong in research of Holocaust but only an Anti-Semite could question intent and magnitude of the event.

Interesting the Zionist aversion to free speech...

Freedom of speech is not a freedom of hate speech.

[shrike]

I don't recall anyone in this thread denying the Holocaust.

Who talked about this thread.There is a people in the forum that post from IHR.

Quote by: grandpa I don't want a Palestinian state period--which must mean I hate all Palestinians

Apperantly you are but you hate nationalism as the concept.

[thx1138]

Nobody has been denying the Holocaust.

Nobody has been against the right of a peaceful Jewish state.

People are against actions taken by the Jewish state against Palestinans and it's influence in the U.S. government through lobbying groups which result in large arms sales.

I think calling someone an Anti-Semite because they don't support what I just mentioned is ingnorant.


would you agree?

[shrike]

Quote by: thx Nobody has been denying the Holocaust. Nobody has been against the right of a peaceful Jewish state.

Then you should read I/P threads there is a several people in this forum that do exactly that.

People are against actions taken by the Jewish state against Palestinans and it's influence in the U.S. government through lobbying groups which result in large arms sales.

There is nothing wrong in normal critics like any other country in the world Israel. The problem starts when Israel is singled out.
The last part of argument remind me typical anti-Semite argument that Jews control the government(I didn't say that you anti-Semite).Lobby system is part of democracy it exist in every democratic country. There is gun lobby, oil lobby, animal lobby, reek lobby, Palestinian lobby and etc. So why its wrong for Israel to have its own lobby?

would you agree?

I agree with European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia

1. Denying the Jewish people the right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavor;
2. Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation;
3. Using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis;
4. Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis;
5. Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel.

http://eumc.eu.int/eumc/material/pub...tion-draft.pdf
And you?

[thx1138]

The last part of argument remind me typical anti-Semite argument that Jews control the government(I didn't say that you anti-Semite).Lobby system is part of democracy it exist in every democratic country. There is gun lobby, oil lobby, animal lobby, reek lobby, Palestinian lobby and etc. So why its wrong for Israel to have its own lobby?

Lobbying by full-time groups negitvely effects governments, it is one of the most corupt aspects of the U.S. system which is a federal constitutional republic whither from oil, gun, Palestinian or Israeli lobbyist it is back door out of sight influence by special interest groups. These special interest groups often support all the political parties of a country so no matter who is in power the special interest group gets special treatment.

I'm against any special interest group lobbying full-time the U.S. government which would include Isreali lobbyist, then I would qualify as an anti-Semite.

I'm also against Iraqi lobbyist that help influence the U.S. public about WMD's and against any of the lobbys now pushing for war with Iran.

[shrike]

Lobbying by full-time groups negitvely effects governments, it is one of the most corupt aspects of the U.S. system which is a federal constitutional republic whither from oil, gun, Palestinian or Israeli lobbyist it is back door out of sight influence by special interest groups. These special interest groups often support all the political parties of a country so no matter who is in power the special interest group gets special treatment. I'm against any special interest group lobbying full-time the U.S. government which would include Isreali lobbyist, then I would qualify as an anti-Semite. I'm also against Iraqi lobbyist that help influence the U.S. public about WMD's and against any of the lobbys now pushing for war with Iran.

Well I understand that you against lobbies in general and there is nothing wrong with that. My problem start when Israel lobby is singled out. There is no books about Arab lobby in US I wonder why?

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: shrike Well I already answered this. Does my answer is not good enough for you?

If I recall correctly, my question was really directed at Ghook who has still yet to respond.

[SuperSahar]

Israel is NOT being singled out, Shrike. If you go through the threads you will see many other governments being criticized

[grandpa]

Quote by: SuperSahar Israel is NOT being singled out, Shrike. If you go through the threads you will see many other governments being criticized

Exactly.

Grandpa h.

[Nono]

Hook's link has absolutely nothing to do with anti- (or pro-) Semitism, just as it has nothing to do with anti/pro-Scandinavianism (i.e. Denmark and Finland).

I infer that Israel ranks about 30th. That's a pretty poor score for a country portrays itself as an island of Western Values in the Middle East.