Microsoft urges worldwide adoption of Canadian child porn tracking tool:

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: Chancellor Actually, some census data, particularly at the local or state level, is helpful to people trying to trace their genealogy. I agree with you that most of the questions on the federal census form are just plain stupid.

Having traced my wife's ancestry back to Charlemagne, and my own back to the 11th century, I have to agree. However, I see no constitutional authority to help people trace their genealogy.

Keith

[grandpa]

Quote by: Thanatos Its not about protecting kids from porn and chat rooms; that can be done with a bit of attention as you suggest and a filter if you're lazy. The assumption is that if you're downloading child porn, you're a pedophile.

But what if you don't happen to know you're a pedophile, like maybe the person depicted on film is only slightly underage? I can imagine this might happen, and technically it'd be illegal.

I'm concerned about the age thing because I was dating a 21 year old when I was 16. We didn't put porn on the internet, of course, but I could imagine that it might happen somewhere on the net. I'm not defending anything, just saying it's a slippery slope that could cause some problems.

I am against child porn, I just don't think we should turn to the Bush Administration to prevent it. It should be a parental/community issue, really. And I simply do not advocate internet censorship (which I don't doubt would be a part of such technology).

Grandpa h.

[Zeebadee]

Kiddie porn comes out of eastern Europe like oil out of OPEC. My question is, how many pervs are kept off the streets and out of circulation because they can get their fix on the internet and not have to go out looking for it?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Zeebadee Kiddie porn comes out of eastern Europe like oil out of OPEC. My question is, how many pervs are kept off the streets and out of circulation because they can get their fix on the internet and not have to go out looking for it?

Decent question. Also, we should consider people who accidentally stumble into child porn. Honestly, I once accidentally stumbled onto a gay porn website at work and I wasn't looking for any such thing at all. This kind of thing can happen, truthfully.

Grandpa h.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: grandpa Decent question. Also, we should consider people who accidentally stumble into child porn. Honestly, I once accidentally stumbled onto a gay porn website at work and I wasn't looking for any such thing at all. This kind of thing can happen, truthfully. Grandpa h.

The attitudes about such things are the same whether the people in question want to control guns, or drugs, or porn, or whatever. Those people seem to think that any exposure will turn you into a criminal or deviant, whether you were before or not.

Owning guns turns you into a murderer.

Trying drugs will turn you into an addict.

Seeing "deviant" porn will make you a "deviant".

As if ideas or objects have control over people, rather than people having control over their thoughts or posessions.

Now that you've seen gay porn, you are going to start lusting for men. There's nothing you can do to stop it. You'll soon start hanging out in gay bars and searching for bathhouses. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.

Keith

(or, to go with the other point of view, guns cause crime like flies cause garbage)

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger The attitudes about such things are the same whether the people in question want to control guns, or drugs, or porn, or whatever. Those people seem to think that any exposure will turn you into a criminal or deviant, whether you were before or not. Owning guns turns you into a murderer. Trying drugs will turn you into an addict. Seeing "deviant" porn will make you a "deviant". As if ideas or objects have control over people, rather than people having control over their thoughts or posessions. Now that you've seen gay porn, you are going to start lusting for men. There's nothing you can do to stop it. You'll soon start hanging out in gay bars and searching for bathhouses. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is. Keith (or, to go with the other point of view, guns cause crime like flies cause garbage)

And if I was going to rewrite the laws you would have to have made multiple visits to a porn site, or download something to your hard drive or other permanent storage device.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger The attitudes about such things are the same whether the people in question want to control guns, or drugs, or porn, or whatever. Those people seem to think that any exposure will turn you into a criminal or deviant, whether you were before or not.

This issue also touches upon whether the suppression of information is legitimate. Does it make us safer or just ignorant enough to think we're safe? Also, we have to consider which porn branch is justified and which isn't, a discussion that could easily lead to the government sawing down the whole tree. I can certainly imagine police arresting somebody for looking for some online "clit" images.

Some people are just addicted to controlling others.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Thanatos And if I was going to rewrite the laws you would have to have made multiple visits to a porn site, or download something to your hard drive or other permanent storage device.

I would wish good luck to you, but I'm afraid we're not quite on the same page. I don't think visiting a porn site--even the worst of the worst--makes someone a total monster. Now, if that same person goes out and actually molests a child, then I'd certainly have a problem with it. Then, of course, there are the grey areas I've touched upon, which presumably can occur multiple times.


Grandpa h.

[Chancellor]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger Having traced my wife's ancestry back to Charlemagne, and my own back to the 11th century, I have to agree. However, I see no constitutional authority to help people trace their genealogy. Keith

Doing a census is constitutional. What private citizens do with that census information pertaining to them and their ancestors is not really the government's concern. By merely giving you access to the information the government isn't really helping anyone trace his or her ancestry.

[Praxius]

My personal beliefs lie in that so long as you do not impose your own personal wants and desires onto other humans or animals for that matter, without them being able to actually confirm those actions with a sound-adult mind, then you should be fine in what you like and want.

My limits always land on children and animals in this case, because most children under age can not make the informed decisions they require for such a situation, and Animals sure as heck can't say yay or nay on the Human Intrusion..... therefore both of those things should be monitored.

If you have kinks for those 18 and/or older who can make their own responsible decisions with their bodies and desires, then I don't care what you do.... stick a bottle in your crotch, puke in each other's faces, shoot crap in the air and catch it in your mouth, etc..... but don't impose your desires onto other's who can not have an equal say in the situation.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: Thanatos And if I was going to rewrite the laws you would have to have made multiple visits to a porn site, or download something to your hard drive or other permanent storage device.

That might be a start, but the government already might consider you to have "downloaded" something if it goes into your temporary internet cache.

If it's ever been on your hard drive, as anything that you view over the internet or receive in email must, you might be prosecuted. If they want you bad enough, they can even check things you've erased that have been overwritten.

That all can be quite scarey.

Keith

[Thanatos]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger That might be a start, but the government already might consider you to have "downloaded" something if it goes into your temporary internet cache. If it's ever been on your hard drive, as anything that you view over the internet or receive in email must, you might be prosecuted. If they want you bad enough, they can even check things you've erased that have been overwritten. That all can be quite scarey. Keith

Use NSA rules and overwrite 7 times at a bare minimum!

Alright, there are reasons why I shouldn't write laws. It should be reworded to specify the deliberate storage of child porn.

[Osborn F Enready]

More encroachment of individiual privacy on "feel-good" legislation, laws that sound "noble", but are really just another fraud perpetrated by government, against the privacy of the people.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready More encroachment of individiual privacy on "feel-good" legislation, laws that sound "noble", but are really just another fraud perpetrated by government, against the privacy of the people.

I'm sure some people look back at alcohol prohibtion and say, "it looked good at the time."

Grandpa h.

[Praxius]

My view though is alcohol is a personal decision which affects your own body and mind (Not including going for a joy ride afterwards) therefore no regulation should be valid in that case.

When it comes to regulations in protecting children (in some way anyways) until they are 18 and able to legally make decisions for themselves without being influenced by an adult brainwashing them as they grow up, then I'm all for it.

I mean, I'm not for controlling what youths can decide on, and if they want to have sex with someone their age or near, whom has a similar level of experience then so be it..... but when it comes to a very noticable age difference, like 26yo vs.13yo..... I'd have to lean strongly at the chances of influence by the older person and what they want to do, rather then what the youth wants to do and there's a clear imbalance.

[Osborn F Enready]

I am not here supporting child porn, in the least.

I in no way advocate or view child porn, and personally find it quite disgusting.

My point, is that this is another, in a line of many case, where there is massive ability for coercion, collusion and fraud, while seeking to infringe on privacy rights of individuals who are by law, recognized as having those rights to privacy.

*hint: All bad legislation is grounded in "noble sounding" causes, very real, while often mis-defined risks and problems within society.

Good legislation shows cause and effect clearly through the use of vetted, valid objective evidence, timelines, non-biased statistical data, solicitation of public opinion on the issue, case examples, etc. and attempts to deal with the issues with respect to individual rights, in a constitutional manner.

Bad legislation hits on all the fears and risks that people perceive, but never really addresses cause and effect with valid, all-encompassing data, often instead using one sided data, biased sources, including (pac, or special intrest group)citizen solicitation of opinion, statistical data that is lacking of time or scope, case examples that trend to one side.

[ruksak]

I find it disparaging that so many people aren't willing to make a sacrifice even for the sake of preventing the most horrid activities that exist in this world today. Be it child pornography or terrorist activities.

People rape children live on their web cam for others to watch. They trade pictures of children that they rape. There is no way to stop this without a proper tracking system in place.
I would be concerned of the slippery slope, but this can be addressed as it comes up. Pedophiles enjoy the anonymity that the NET provides. Its time to expose them.
If someone is doing searches for child porn, it should be noted. If that same person shows up on pedophile discussion boards, it should be noted. If that same person engages an undercover agent about trading illegal pictures, it should be noted. This conglomeration of information should be accessible to law enforcement.

20 years ago pedophiles didn't have this technology at their disposal. If you truly fear that your online activities might get you in trouble, than I would suggest you either need to stop doing whatever it is you're doing that's causing your concern. Or you just need to have your internet service stopped and avoid the internet altogether.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: ruksak I find it disparaging that so many people aren't willing to make a sacrifice even for the sake of preventing the most horrid activities that exist in this world today. Be it child pornography or terrorist activities. People rape children live on their web cam for others to watch. They trade pictures of children that they rape. There is no way to stop this without a proper tracking system in place. I would be concerned of the slippery slope, but this can be addressed as it comes up. Pedophiles enjoy the anonymity that the NET provides. Its time to expose them. If someone is doing searches for child porn, it should be noted. If that same person shows up on pedophile discussion boards, it should be noted. If that same person engages an undercover agent about trading illegal pictures, it should be noted. This conglomeration of information should be accessible to law enforcement. 20 years ago pedophiles didn't have this technology at their disposal. If you truly fear that your online activities might get you in trouble, than I would suggest you either need to stop doing whatever it is you're doing that's causing your concern. Or you just need to have your internet service stopped and avoid the internet altogether.

Of course. How could I have been so wrong? This argument has never been presented to me before.

We MUST do it for the children. We must destroy the Constitution and take away all of the people's rights to save the CHILDREN!!!

Nothing matters but THE CHILDREN!!!

Keith

[HelioPrime]

Quote by: ruksak I find it disparaging that so many people aren't willing to make a sacrifice even for the sake of preventing the most horrid activities that exist in this world today. Be it child pornography or terrorist activities. People rape children live on their web cam for others to watch. They trade pictures of children that they rape. There is no way to stop this without a proper tracking system in place. I would be concerned of the slippery slope, but this can be addressed as it comes up. Pedophiles enjoy the anonymity that the NET provides. Its time to expose them. If someone is doing searches for child porn, it should be noted. If that same person shows up on pedophile discussion boards, it should be noted. If that same person engages an undercover agent about trading illegal pictures, it should be noted. This conglomeration of information should be accessible to law enforcement. 20 years ago pedophiles didn't have this technology at their disposal. If you truly fear that your online activities might get you in trouble, than I would suggest you either need to stop doing whatever it is you're doing that's causing your concern. Or you just need to have your internet service stopped and avoid the internet altogether.

If someone wants to look at kiddie porn then just let them? How would you feel if everytime you looked at any kind a porn a computer somewhere in Virginia is keeping a record.

Porn is porn. If you look in the privacy of your home its your call. The only part the Fed or the state has in this is if you act on an urge and kidnap and or rape a child.

Not that I would support child porn but why should someones attraction to kids be called illegal while another mans attraction to old women be just taboo but allowed.

[ruksak]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger Of course. How could I have been so wrong? This argument has never been presented to me before. We MUST do it for the children. We must destroy the Constitution and take away all of the people's rights to save the CHILDREN!!! Nothing matters but THE CHILDREN!!! Keith

Normally I'd fully agree with you. On matters such as the legalization of marijuana, pornography and so on. The counter point always being "What about the poor children" often fails in my purview.

However, Pedophilia is exclusively and most inarguably, about the children. Thats all its about. The only victims in the child pornography trade, are children.

Quote by: Helio If someone wants to look at kiddie porn then just let them?

Oh my! Thats real messed bro.

No, don't just "let them". If there wasn't such demand for picture trading, than inarguably there wouldn't be so many people raping kids and photographing them to meet the demand that is present.

Porn is porn. If you look in the privacy of your home its your call. The only part the Fed or the state has in this is if you act on an urge and kidnap and or rape a child. Not that I would support child porn but why should someones attraction to kids be called illegal while another mans attraction to old women be just taboo but allowed.

The exploitation of children is only exacerbated by the demand for viewing such pictures.