Deserting Petraeus

[dilligras]

Charles Krauthammer - Deserting Petraeus - washingtonpost.com

But what cannot be said -- although it is now heard daily in Washington -- is that the surge, which is shorthand for Gen. David Petraeus's new counterinsurgency strategy, has failed. The tragedy is that, just as a working strategy has been found, some Republicans in the Senate have lost heart and want to pull the plug. It is understandable that Sens. Lugar, Voinovich, Domenici, Snowe and Warner may no longer trust President Bush's judgment when he tells them to wait until Petraeus reports in September. What is not understandable is the vote of no confidence they are passing on Petraeus. These are the same senators who sent him back to Iraq by an 81 to 0 vote to institute his new counterinsurgency strategy. A month ago, Petraeus was asked whether we could still win in Iraq. The general, who had recently attended two memorial services for soldiers lost under his command, replied that if he thought he could not succeed he would not be risking the life of a single soldier.

We all expect the faux peaceniks of the lefty-run DNC to deny reality whenever they find it inconvenient to their political agenda. But when those RINO's who proudly assert their conservatism by sporting an "R" next to their names start sounding like treasonous surrender-monkeys, the sense of betrayal is even more profound.

Here, Charles "The Kraut" Krauthammer points out the fallacious thinking of the marshmellow-spined numbnuts in his own inimitable style.

(PS: On the off chance that my recent absence has been noticed by some here, I must beg forebearance due to the call of other duties, and promise to try to catch up on some of my other debates soon)



As you were

[thx1138]

the tag-line under your name is spot on mate.

good luck with that.

[grandpa]

Krauthammer would have made an excellent Nazi (arguably he still does).

Please elaborate on what exactly you want discussed here. Your comments are simply the usual pointless name-calling.

You had the same problem with your other thread, where almost literally all you could do was deliver cute little insults.

Grandpa h.

[The Decider]

Quote by: dilligras We all expect the faux peaceniks of the lefty-run DNC to deny reality whenever they find it inconvenient to their political agenda. But when those RINO's who proudly assert their conservatism by sporting an "R" next to their names start sounding like treasonous surrender-monkeys, the sense of betrayal is even more profound.

We'll do our best to remove those RINO's next November and alleviate your suffering.

Dismissed.

[Milton Bradley]

The part I like best is "they just found a tactic that's working". :rolleyes:


Wow, that must be reason to throw some more money at the same morons to save the planet.


So, all along we have had the right people making the calls, but now, now you can expect to see some measurable results.


Got any bridges for sale? I think I might be in the market for a really big bridge.

[dilligras]

Quote by: thx1138 the tag-line under your name is spot on mate.

Whereas, your own seems to indicate only an affinity for volcanic dirt clods... interesting, whether accurate or no.

good luck with that.

Thanks, lady luck, fickle though she may be, is an important adjunct to any skill, in my experience.


As you were.

[Pooeypants]

This is a debate forum, can I see less chatroom antics? That goes for everyone.

[dilligras]

Quote by: grandpa Krauthammer would have made an excellent Nazi (arguably he still does). Please elaborate on what exactly you want discussed here. Your comments are simply the usual pointless name-calling.

Priceless.

First you call The Kraut a Nazi, then you complain that all I do is call people names. I see your ironicometer is in need of calibration, mon ami.

And you needn't be so disengenuous as to suggest that you might take direction from me as to what will be discussed.... but here's a thought: how about discussing the author's observations/opinions? Surely that's not so abstruse as to escape your notice?


I know, I know.... don't call you shirley.

You had the same problem with your other thread, where almost literally all you could do was deliver cute little insults.

Sounds like you're the one who had the problem with the thread... which leads me to wonder why I'm finding you in this one, pilgrim.


As you were.

[dilligras]

Quote by: Milton Bradley The part I like best is "they just found a tactic that's working". :rolleyes: Wow, that must be reason to throw some more money at the same morons to save the planet. So, all along we have had the right people making the calls, but now, now you can expect to see some measurable results.

Most who have paid attention have already admitted that the surge has produced remarkable results.

To whit:

The Tide Is Turning in Iraq
BY KIMBERLY KAGAN
Sunday, September 9, 2007 12:01 a.m. EDT
WSJ.com

The first major combat operation of the surge, Operation Phantom Thunder, began on June 15 and accomplished its primary objectives. American troops and Iraqi Security Forces eliminated all of al Qaeda's sanctuaries in the Baghdad belts, including its urban stronghold in Baqubah. U.S. forces cleared Dora, al Qaeda's stronghold in western Baghdad. They established an extensive net of outposts in former enemy safe havens, degraded the capabilities of Shiite militias, and dramatically reduced sectarian violence and spectacular attacks in and around the capital. Phantom Thunder was the first coherent campaign aimed at all of the major al Qaeda strongholds at once. As a result, terrorists could not move from one safe haven to another. Iraqi and coalition forces killed, wounded and captured thousands of them. Six months ago, insurgents operated freely around Baghdad's belts. Now U.S. and Iraqi forces limit them to discrete areas, more distant from urban centers, where they cannot easily defend themselves, or support one another or their vehicle-bomb network. Smaller groups who escaped from their safe havens during combat operations generally fled along the Tigris and Diyala River valleys. The remnants of al Qaeda in western Baghdad can no longer quickly reinforce their positions from outside or within the city.

Rolleyes, my ass!

Here, pard, let me help you find your way back home by opening this here worm hole for you:

Daily Kos: State of the Nation

Got any bridges for sale? I think I might be in the market for a really big bridge.

Well, no.... I might have some KB layin' around, but it's not for sale. If it's bridges you want, perhaps the folks in Minnesota can help you. I hear they're replacing one soon.

And there's always Gallopin' Gertie..... big enough for your purposes? Tell you what, I'll even give you an instability discount of 50% off retail, or just umpteen million. Please forward the funds to my email via paypal, at dilligras@gimmeallyerdoremi.com

(batteries not included)


Carry on

[grandpa]

Quote by: dilligras Priceless. First you call The Kraut a Nazi, then you complain that all I do is call people names. I see your ironicometer is in need of calibration, mon ami.

That wasn't just name-calling. "The Kraut" has viewpoints and rhetoric that is remarkably similar to those of a Nazi war-planner (or any other terrorist state war-planner).

I was also asking you to provide something more to discuss. You didn't give anyone much to work with other than name-calling (fact, not a debating tactic).

Grandpa h.

[dilligras]

Quote by: grandpa That wasn't just name-calling. "The Kraut" has viewpoints and rhetoric that is remarkably similar to those of a Nazi war-planner (or any other terrorist state war-planner). I was also asking you to provide something more to discuss. You didn't give anyone much to work with other than name-calling (fact, not a debating tactic). Grandpa h.

I am not required to provide anything but the article, if my reading of the instructions for starting a thread here was correct.

I gave you the article-- in fact two so far-- while no one else has linked to anything to support their contentions. Discuss them or not.... as for myself, I will only ask the obvious..... dilligras?


As you were.

[Autolykos]

When you get right down to it, it doesn't matter to me one bit whether the US and its allies are "winning" the "war" in Iraq. Either way, I want the US forces out of there. I oppose the "war" in Iraq as a matter of principle.

- Rob

[dilligras]

Quote by: Autolykos When you get right down to it, it doesn't matter to me one bit whether the US and its allies are "winning" the "war" in Iraq. Either way, I want the US forces out of there. I oppose the "war" in Iraq as a matter of principle. - Rob

\


Got it.

Based on past experience with similar choices, I would prefer we keep our word with the Iraqi people, to whom we made a promise to support them as an ally after Saddam was deposed. We made a similar promise and broke it in Vietnam, and the result was mass slaughter on an unimaginable scale. Unimaginable to those who have never had to struggle against a Communist dictator, that is.

Cubans are now fleeing in greater numbers than they have in years, simply because Castro's brother has shown them none of the relief from their oppression that they had hoped for upon Castro's stepping down or dying.

Remember that very few Congresscritters voted against using force to oust Saddam in post-9/11 atmosphere, so their flip-flopping to appease the radical lefties in the media and their moveon-type "constituencies" serve only to show our allies that we can't be counted on in the long run, no matter how badly we are attacked, and no matter what our leaders say to the contrary.

As far as our foreign policy is concerned, both our allies and our enemies have rightly concluded that this country has the attention span of a two-year-old at Chuckie Cheese.


As you were.

[brien]

Quote by: Autolykos When you get right down to it, it doesn't matter to me one bit whether the US and its allies are "winning" the "war" in Iraq. Either way, I want the US forces out of there. I oppose the "war" in Iraq as a matter of principle. - Rob

I agree 100% here w/ Rob. It matters not what the politicians want, nor what the military wants, in our Democracy. It is what the "will of the people" desire, b/c this is what matters above all.


Bloomberg.com: Worldwide


Poll: Confidence in Iraq war down sharply - CNN.com

Even more people who were polled think we made a mistake by going into Iraq.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Americans are starkly less confident and proud of their country's involvement in Iraq, according to poll results released Sunday. However, the poll -- results of which were released on the eve of the Iraq war's 4-year anniversary -- also indicated that Americans are no more worried about the conflict than they were when it began in March 2003. The CNN poll of 1,027 adults was conducted March 9-11 by Opinion Research Corp. The sampling error for the poll is plus or minus 3 percentage points. According to the results, 35 percent of Americans are confident about the war, the poll said. When the war began, 83 percent of Americans expressed confidence in the campaign. Similarly, 30 percent of those polled this month said they were proud of the war, as opposed to 65 percent who expressed that sentiment in 2003. The poll also showed that 33 percent of Americans are afraid of the war and 55 percent are worried by it. Those percentages are roughly the same as they were four years ago. Sunday's results came on the heels of a Saturday release indicating that years of war had whittled away at Americans' support for the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. When the Iraq war began, 68 percent of Americans said they felt the situation in the country was worth fighting over. Now, 61 percent of those surveyed say it was not worth invading Iraq, according to the poll. That survey of 1,027 adults by Opinion Research Corp. was conducted by telephone March 9-11 as well. It has a sampling error of plus or minus 3 percentage points. The poll showed that support for the Iraq war had dwindled to 35 percent. In 2004, support for the war was about 56 percent. Last year, the number dipped to 37 percent, and today about 35 percent of Americans say they support the war, according to the poll. Support for the war in Afghanistan also has seen a considerable decline as 88 percent of those polled in 2001 said they were behind the conflict. This month's poll indicates that support lingers around 53 percent. Also, according to the poll, about 55 percent of Americans feel the war in Afghanistan is "going badly," according to the poll

It seems to me that the people are speaking and very few are listening.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Autolykos When you get right down to it, it doesn't matter to me one bit whether the US and its allies are "winning" the "war" in Iraq. Either way, I want the US forces out of there. I oppose the "war" in Iraq as a matter of principle. - Rob

I want the war over too, I think this is a war that should never had been started in the first place. No WMDs, then no reason to invade. However, if there is any chance of winning over there, I say pursue it.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: dilligras Vietnam, and the result was mass slaughter on an unimaginable scale.

Heh. This didn't seem right to me so I looked it up and guess what? I don't think you can substantiate your clam of "mass slaughter" in Vietnam after the departure of the American invaders.

Let's see you try, dilligras.

And I probably don't need to inform you that there has been a mass slaughter of Iraqis since the invasion and occupation. Maybe about 600k or more. (Johns Hopkins)

You might look at this article if you were unbiased, but I sorta think you won't. Iraq, Vietnam, and the Bloodbath Theory


Then there's this:

Iraq, like Vietnam, is turning out to be a killing field. In Vietnam, as we learned in the ensuing years, the mechanisms were many, but the primary ones were use of free-fires zones, where terrified Americans soldiers were authorized to shoot and kill any target that moved, and by massive aerial bombing, most directed at South Vietnamese targets, where villages, towns and cities were completely leveled. In Iraq, bombing is going on and not being reported. Hopkins claims that 15% of the civilian victims (about 100,000) are caused by US bombs. 56%, however, is reported to be by gunshot wounds. Much of the violence is Iraqi on Iraqi, as anyone watching American media will testify. (Around 13% of the deaths were attributed to car bombs.) But just as much is American on Iraqi. That’s not reported so much. In the article, US soldiers talk about their everyday encounters with Iraqis. Usually, the American is armed, the Iraqi not. Several of the soldiers did nothing but late night and early morning raids on Iraqi homes. Soldiers would burst in, Gestapo-style, and roust everyone out, turn the house on end, and often arrest young Iraqi men. According to interviews with twenty-four veterans who participated in such raids, they are a relentless reality for Iraqis under occupation. The American forces, stymied by poor intelligence, invade neighborhoods where insurgents operate, bursting into homes in the hope of surprising fighters or finding weapons. But such catches, they said, are rare. Far more common were stories in which soldiers assaulted a home, destroyed property in their futile search and left terrorized civilians struggling to repair the damage and begin the long torment of trying to find family members who were hauled away as suspects. Raids normally took place between midnight and 5 am, according to Sgt. John Bruhns, 29, of Philadelphia, who estimates that he took part in raids of nearly 1,000 Iraqi homes. He served in Baghdad and Abu Ghraib, a city infamous for its prison, located twenty miles west of the capital, with the Third Brigade, First Armor Division, First Battalion, for one year beginning in March 2003. His descriptions of raid procedures closely echoed those of eight other veterans who served in locations as diverse as Kirkuk, Samarra, Baghdad, Mosul and Tikrit. “You want to catch them off guard,” Sergeant Bruhns explained. “You want to catch them in their sleep.” About ten troops were involved in each raid, he said, with five stationed outside and the rest searching the home. By such methods are new insurgents created. But the most disturbing impression left by these interviews is the low regard soldiers hold for Iraqi civilians. All are regarded as potential enemies. While officially the US sets high standards for troop behavior and prosecutes malefactors, in practice, civilians are often killed randomly, accidentally, or intentionally with disregard, and nothing is done. There are no consequences. As a result, there is very little incentive for US soldiers to minimize Iraqi casualties.

The Mechanics of Mass Slaughter « Piece Of Mind

So I wouldn't take what Krauthammer says too seriously. I agree with grandpa that he could fit in nicely in the Third Reich. Oh, wait he's a Jew, and Jews can't be Nazis! Oh, wait again, yes they can! FOXNews.com - Police: Israeli Neo-Nazi Ring Busted - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

[dilligras]

Yes, the war should not have been started.....by Saddam. He fucked with the bull once too often, and then acted surprised when he got the horn.

Obviously, the Iranians either weren't watching, or they actually believed the lefty account of what happened....so they will be mislead by the Dems into thinking that they also may defy the horn with impunity, by implementing their plan for the apocalypse.

It seems now that stability and security in the ME means we will probably have to knock their dicks in the dirt as well, before all is said and done.

Too bad.

Their lefty supporters will have done them no service, in the end.


As you were.

[dilligras]

Is that Patrick Henry I am detecting with my leftie-O-meter? Why, yes, I think it is! How ya been, Pattycakes, ol' buddy? You've been missed around here, I've heard.

I'll try to get to any rational points I may locate in your post a bit later, as the ol' carpal tunnel is rearing its ugly head at the moment....but for now, welcome aboard.

Pull up a stool, the barkeep will be over directly.....er, you are old enough to drink, right?


As you were

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: dilligras Is that Patrick Henry I am detecting with my leftie-O-meter? Why, yes, I think it is! How ya been, Pattycakes, ol' buddy? You've been missed around here, I've heard. I'll try to get to any rational points I may locate in your post a bit later, as the ol' carpal tunnel is rearing its ugly head at the moment....but for now, welcome aboard. Pull up a stool, the barkeep will be over directly.....er, you are old enough to drink, right? As you were

I'm probably older than you, ya' old cuss...My hands hurt, too.


But seriously, how many were killed in Vietnam when the Commies took over?

[shrike]

Quote by: PH yes they can! FOXNews.com - Police: Israeli Neo-Nazi Ring Busted - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News

Israeli don't mean Jew.But what facts matter to one that post from Holoucost denial sites?