Bush invokes 'tragedy of Vietnam' against Iraq pullout

[Nono]

Quote by: Bobby Al Gore spent about a month and half in Vietnam as a journalist, which was far less than other journalists. Of course, Al Gore's father was long statnding senator of the majority party, a chairman of powerful committees ect. Nobody spent much time wondering about a connection.

Do you have sources for your claims, B?
I understand that Gore spent five months in Vietnam. That's five months longer than Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz & Co.

And here's a question: How many other US senators had sons in Vietnam, for any period at all?

Careful now.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Deadeye President Bush says many things about many things. You cannot logically say that everytime he speaks he makes things worse. That's just not true. I know it makes you feel good to say such nonsense, but I suggest that you "get real". I'd like for you to tell me how our surrender in Iraq is going to make the US more secure.

You know, I'm sure Deadeye and I disagree about a lot of things, but to be fair I'm going to have to back him up in this regard. Not everything any one person says makes things worse, or is stupid, nonsensical...

I remember reading a book that was published before Bush II listing things previous presidents had said that they shouldn't have said... kind of a Darwin Award only for what was said that was outrageous, stupid or even dangerous. Every one of our presidents was in there, except the ones under the Articles that no one wants to count... (long story).

Although I would bet, if a way to measure such things waspossible, (My guess? Not.) Bush would hold the record. Just a guess.

How can we surrender in Iraq? Who could we even surrender to? Although many wish to paint this as a monolithic struggle there are so many factions to "surrender to" it would be senseless. Surrendering to one would be tantamount to declaring war on another. Just walking out, if even possible, would be more like letting rabid rats have at each other. BTW, I don't recommend that myself. Eventually one hopes we can be more like a referee who stays out of the way unless absolutely necessary to step in. Unlike some, I believe we need to start heading that way. Right now we are more like an accelerant to a very determined fire coming at us from multiple directions.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Nono Do you have sources for your claims, B? I understand that Gore spent five months in Vietnam. That's five months longer than Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz & Co. And here's a question: How many other US senators had sons in Vietnam, for any period at all? Careful now.

This is something I just don't get. For a movement that prides itself in its supposed patriotism the Neos certainly spend far too much time, and took far too much pleasure, in pissing on every purple heart recipent by insisting that Kerry got his because they hand them out like candy, or smearing someone who lost most of his limbs, or has shrapnel in him, or...

Methinks said "patriotism" is of the same ilk as the supposed "faith" Jesus put down as basically something done as mere public display. The slightest drip of a raindrop is less shallow than that kind of patriotism

[BobbyO]

Quote by: Nono Do you have sources for your claims, B? I understand that Gore spent five months in Vietnam. That's five months longer than Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz & Co. And here's a question: How many other US senators had sons in Vietnam, for any period at all? Careful now.

Whatever the time was five months (which is probably right), month and a half, who cares? It doesn't matter.

I am not sure what sources for which claims. That Gore's father was a more powerful figure than was Bush's? I am sure Al Gore has a website which will mention his father to some extent.

[BobbyO]

Quote by: Ken Carman This is something I just don't get. For a movement that prides itself in its supposed patriotism the Neos certainly spend far too much time, and took far too much pleasure, in pissing on every purple heart recipent by insisting that Kerry got his because they hand them out like candy, or smearing someone who lost most of his limbs, or has shrapnel in him, or... Methinks said "patriotism" is of the same ilk as the supposed "faith" Jesus put down as basically something done as mere public display. The slightest drip of a raindrop is less shallow than that kind of patriotism

Ahh but here is the rub.

Al Gore, when talking about his service Vietnam, merely mentioned it was something he did. He served in Vietnam, went home, wrte for the local paper, was elected to Congress, Senate ect ect. Gore never said that beause of his service in Vietnam, THEREFORE he would make a
fine commander in chief and president.

But Kerry basically said, he was a war hero in Vietnam THEREFORE he would make a fine commander in chief and president.
If his service in Vietnam is what qualified Kerry to be president, well then, it damm well ought to have been looked at. Kerry created his own problem because he thought he was immune to criticism. he was wrong, and blamed everyone else for his error.

[Deadeye]

Quote by: Zeebadee This tired old lie should be allowed to rest, it's been debunked so many times it's not even worth responding to.

General Patreas just told Congress that we are fighting a "proxy war against Iran" in Iraq. He knows what's going on there lots better than any of the Left wing media does. He knows more about the situation on the ground in Iraq than any of us, and he says we can win.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Deadeye General Patreas just told Congress that we are fighting a "proxy war against Iran" in Iraq. He knows what's going on there lots better than any of the Left wing media does.

There you go again, talking about the "Left Wing" media instead of making any elaborate arguments.
An amazing aspect of war-mongering is how any fact that makes militarism look bad is either fictional or "left-wing."
In doing this, you forget that many opposing this war don't consider themselves on the "left" of the political spectrum.

Also, you fail to note is how a military General is likely to be biased in favor of the war he supports, perhaps no matter what happens.

Grandpa h.