Iraqi prime minister faces revolt within party:

[Praxius]

CTV.ca | Iraqi prime minister faces revolt within party

BAGHDAD -- Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki faces a revolt within his party by factions that want him out as Iraqi leader, according to officials in his office and the political party he leads. Ibrahim al-Jaafari, al-Maliki's predecessor, leads the challenge and already has approached leaders of the country's two main Kurdish parties, parliament's two Sunni Arab blocs and lawmakers loyal to powerful Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Al-Jaafari's campaign, the officials said, was based on his concerns that al-Maliki's policies had led Iraq into turmoil because the prime minister was doing too little to promote national reconciliation. The former prime minister also has approached Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq's top Shiite cleric, proposing a "national salvation" government to replace the al-Maliki coalition. The Iranian-born al-Sistani refused to endorse the proposal, the officials said. "Al-Jaafari is proposing a national and nonsectarian political plan to save the nation," said Faleh al-Fayadh, a Dawa party lawmaker familiar with the former prime minister's contacts. Other officials, however, said al-Jaafari had only an outside chance of replacing or ousting al-Maliki. But they said the challenge could undermine al-Maliki and further entangle efforts at meeting important legislative benchmarks sought by Washington. They spoke of the sensitive political wrangling only on condition of anonymity. The officials would not give details of the rift between al-Maliki and al-Jaafari, saying only that it began two months ago when a Dawa party congress voted to replace al-Jaafari with al-Maliki as its leader. Al-Jaafari and other senior Dawa members are questioning the legality of that vote and the former prime minister has since boycotted all official party functions, said al-Fayadh. The usually secretive Dawa, which is made up of two factions, has 25 of parliament's 275 seats but draws its strength from being a key faction of a large Shiite alliance. Ali al-Dabbagh, the government's spokesman, declined to comment on the rift between al-Maliki and al-Jaafari, arguing that it was a matter for the Dawa to deal with. "There should be no objections for a figure like al-Jaafari to try and put together a new political bloc provided that this will be of service to the political process," he said. Al-Maliki, a tough-talking Islamist, has so far failed to make significant progress on some of Iraq's major problems 14 months after his "national unity" government took office. Security remains tenuous in much of the country, services are near collapse and soaring crime and unemployment continue to take their toll. Al-Jaafari's own record in office was not any better, but al-Jaafari was widely perceived as an open-minded Islamist who is at total ease dealing with his American backers. To the Sunni Arabs he is courting now, the officials said, al-Jaafari was proposing a change in Iraq's sectarian, power-sharing formula. He wants the president's job, now held by Jalal Talabani, a Kurd, to be given to a Sunni Arab to achieve a better balance between Iraq's ethnic and religious factions and to improve ties with Arab nations. To win the support of the Kurds, al-Jaafari is pledging the implementation of a clause in the constitution that provides for a referendum before the end of 2007 on the fate of Kirkuk, an oil-rich city in northern Iraq that the Kurds want to annex. To compensate them for the loss of the presidency, al-Jaafari is proposing that they fill the post of parliament speaker, now occupied by a Sunni Arab. Al-Jaafari's bid to topple al-Maliki runs counter to ongoing negotiations to form what is being billed an "alliance of the moderates" that would include the country's four largest Shiite and Kurdish parties and independent Shiites. It excludes hardline Shiites and Sunni Arabs. It also comes at a time when al-Maliki is facing a threat by the largest Sunni Arab bloc to pull its ministers from his coalition unless he meets a long list of demands, which include overtures to minority Sunni Arabs, political inclusion and commitment to human rights. Al-Maliki also has to contend with mounting pressure from Washington to meet a host of political benchmarks that should place Iraq's rival factions on the road to reconciliation.

Well another show that the US placed government is failing.... which is also one of the key factors as to why very little progress is showing.... as mentioned in this article, the current president clearly hasn't tried hard enough to deal with the problems his people are facing (Going for a week vacation because it was too hot, is a perfect example of their devotion.)

These people at least are expressing that they are tired of getting nowhere, they are willing to take the country to the direction it requires to help stop the bloodshed, and even if it's going back to a islam-style government, then so be it.... apparently democracy doesn't work for everybody, esspecially when the majority of them never lived it to begin with.....

If the Bush Admins. could stop referring to Iraq as a fledgeling-baby democracy that needs care and all that other deroggetory list of remarks, allowed them to run their country as they see fit, then I imagine most of this crap wouldn't be happening.

Did the British come along and carry the US's hand all the way through the development of the constitution? No.... because you guys made it yourselves.... a brand new country with the ability to guide the direction you wished to go..... but they're not being allowed that chance and this is probably why it's all screwing up..... you're trying to force and dictate democracy..... how the hell is that supposed to work?

[Yarn]

So we should leave and hope for the best?

So we should stay, continue having our soldiers and money expended, and yet demand no say in the countries administration?

What are you advocating we do?

[Praxius]

Well it doesn't matter what I say anymore.... it's not like anything we say in here will ever make a difference, or anybody here actually is in a position to do anything if they wanted to.

But a withdrawl seems in order.... kinda like "Sorry, our bad.... we screwed up.... see ya." .... yeah... that sounds about right..... but gee.... that's just too simple.

[christibe]

(my sarcasm here is only reflective of how I generally feel, not about any other statements on this thread)
Hey.... I know.... What if we asked other countries what they think? Or, I wish I knew what other countries thought of my war in Iraq, like, if they were fighting in it, what they would do, like, would they keep fighting in it.... Or, I wish the Iraqis ould tell me what I should do, but instead they just keeping blowing things up around my soldiers and mercenaries...


Man, I really wish there was place like that... where smart people from lots of other nations met, preferably somewhere on this side of the Atlantic, overseas flights can get pretty boring and I am a President that needs to ride my bike alot... hmmm.... what to do, what to do....
(...and is a coping mechanism I need to use because everything about this is too ridiculous for me to understand rationally...)

[Praxius]

Update:


(Man, every pic I ever seen of this guy, reminds me of a Stooge)

Sunni bloc pulls out of Iraqi government

Iraq's largest Sunni Arab political bloc announced its withdrawal from the government Wednesday, undermining Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's efforts to seek reconciliation among the country's rival factions. Rafaa al-Issawi, a leading member of the Front, said at a news conference in the capital that the bloc's six cabinet ministers would submit their resignations later in the day. Al-Issawi said the decision to pull out from the government followed what he called al-Maliki's failure to respond to a set of demands put forward by the Accordance Front last week, when it gave the prime minister seven days to meet its demands. Among the demands: a pardon for security detainees not charged with specific crimes, the disbanding of militias and the participation of all groups represented in the government in dealing with security issues. "The government is continuing with its arrogance, refusing to change its stand and has slammed shut the door to any meaningful reform," al-Issawi said. "We had hoped that the government would respond to these demands or acknowledge its failures. But its stand did not surprise us at all." The Accordance Front has 44 of parliament's 275 seats. Its withdrawal from the 14-month-old government is the second such action by a faction of al-Maliki's "national unity" coalition. Five cabinet ministers loyal to radical Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr quit the government in April to protest al-Maliki's reluctance to announce a timetable for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. Bombings rock Baghdad Violence continued unabated in Iraq on Wednesday,as three separate bombing attacks in Baghdad killed at least 70 people and the U.S. military announced three American soldiers were killed by a sophisticated, armour-piercing bomb. A parked car bomb killed three people and wounded five in southern Baghdad, police said Wednesday afternoon. In the western part of the city, at least 50 people were killed and 60 wounded when a fuel truck exploded in the primarily Sunni Mansour neighbourhood. Two police officers, both speaking on condition of anonymity, said it was the work of a suicide attacker. Earlier Wednesday a second parked car bomb killed 17 civilians and left a gaping crater in a busy square in central Baghdad, police said. Another 32 people were wounded by the blast, a police officer said on condition of anonymity out of security concerns. An Associated Press reporter at the scene said the explosion ripped a hole more than a metre deep and nearly two metres wide in the asphalt. Three minibuses and six cars were damaged by flames and flying debris. Blood pooled in the street. A gas station and a nearby restaurant, which was closed at the time of the blast, also suffered damage. The explosives had been planted in a vehicle in al-Hurriyah square in the mostly Shia Karradah neighbourhood, and detonated around 10:15 a.m. local time, the police officer said. Thamir Sami, 33, was carrying clothes from his menswear shop out to his car when the explosion shook the area. "Women and children were lining up near the gas station to get fuel.… I saw burnt bodies. Other motorists and I helped evacuate the wounded before the ambulances came," he said. The bombing occurred nearly a week after a cluster of explosions, including one from a massive truck bomb, hit the same neighbourhood. Karradah had previously been thought to be one of central Baghdad's safest areas. Last Thursday's blasts killed more than 60 people.

I think it's actually interesting to see the thinking and problems those in the Iraqi government face, and to hear what plans and goals they want to stop what's currently going on.

Perhaps instead of everybody trying to guess what the US will do in Iraq, perhaps we should be concentrating on Iraq themselves, see what they require to stop this bloodshed and help make it happen, rather then by-passing all that and listening and doing what Bush wants...... It's not his country, it's the Iraqi's and if they seem to know what is needed to stop all this BS, then perhaps we should start to listen to them.

The Current president is a friggin stooge, he hasn't done anything worthwhile to remember except nothing... he's been suck holing Bush almost from day one, He doesn't have a pair to take action for what his country wants and needs..... he's useless....he's clueless.... frig just look at him.... he's got that blank "I don't know what I'm really doing" face.

All the demands I seen explained seem pretty reasonable and appear as though it "Could" have a chance at improving things.... but this twirp in power dilly dallys, he ignores reqests and demands by those who have been so-called elected, and he just sits back and let's the destruction of his country continue, like some goon who doesn't have a clue as to what the country needs.

[Yarn]

Quote by: Praxius Well it doesn't matter what I say anymore.... it's not like anything we say in here will ever make a difference, or anybody here actually is in a position to do anything if they wanted to. But a withdrawl seems in order.... kinda like "Sorry, our bad.... we screwed up.... see ya." .... yeah... that sounds about right..... but gee.... that's just too simple.

This is kind of an emblamatic reponse to my questions.

Yeah, we screwed up. Anyone with a brain can see that.

But now what?

That is the difficult question to answer, and perhaps an impossible one to answer with confidence. It not a question that you or I, am even willing to answer strongly, for fear of being wrong-as there is of course so much on the line here.

My point more or less is, yeah you can point out the obvious fact that the war was bad idea, has been mismanaged, and is screwed up, but to do so is, is well to state the obvious. Whom is there left to convince of that other than Mr. Vichio?

Quote by: Praxius Perhaps instead of everybody trying to guess what the US will do in Iraq, perhaps we should be concentrating on Iraq themselves, see what they require to stop this bloodshed and help make it happen, rather then by-passing all that and listening and doing what Bush wants...... It's not his country, it's the Iraqi's and if they seem to know what is needed to stop all this BS, then perhaps we should start to listen to them. The Current president is a friggin stooge, he hasn't done anything worthwhile to remember except nothing... he's been suck holing Bush almost from day one, He doesn't have a pair to take action for what his country wants and needs..... he's useless....he's clueless.... frig just look at him.... he's got that blank "I don't know what I'm really doing" face. All the demands I seen explained seem pretty reasonable and appear as though it "Could" have a chance at improving things.... but this twirp in power dilly dallys, he ignores reqests and demands by those who have been so-called elected, and he just sits back and let's the destruction of his country continue, like some goon who doesn't have a clue as to what the country needs.

Maliki isn't dictator, he didn't have the power to meet some of those demands period, and he didn't have the power to meet some of them without losing his office. Democracy has its strengths and weaknesses, but frankly, I don't think Iraq's people are ready to elect a government which will pursue the national interest, instead of various sectional interests. Nevermind the single man Maliki, it is the aggregate form of the government itself.

That requested by those Sunnis, did not have popular support in the parliament, and so could not come to be.

[christibe]

I wonder if there would continue to be a civil war of sorts if US troops just left?

Ok, way too simplistic I know. I imagine there would continue to be fighting between the 'factions', as they are called. But, we (smart-white-man) forced them to be in a unified country to begin with. They didn't really like it then, and I guess it sorta seems they don't really like it now. (Especially since now they are unified under possibly the supreme level of bullsh*t ever in nation-building) But, you know, even if we really did have a pure goal in all of this, as in bringing democracy, maybe the three groups of religious people would rather prefer to not have it, because they'd rather not be in a country together. Y'know? I mean, I am still getting over the involuntary-reflex-vomiting when I remember that GWB is my president... but I am an American in an established order of presidents and term limits and congress and states and constitution and such. I can't even begin to imagine the sheer unadulterated anger and revulsion a typical Iraqi must have... that this utter clown sent troops in for no effing reason and killed at least one, two, 10, 20 people you know, the troops act like rednecks, they tell you its for your own good cuz God wants it so, (I am not bashing on my military folk... but from my own experience of talking to many people who got back from Iraq, and were sent back over again, a good percentage of them do speak and think in this way), this clown sent in a fake government, then told you that you could have elections, but if you really went you'd probably be shot, and if you did vote you probably aren't really representative of the average Iraqi. And now, you are so angry, you are so completely flabbergasted by the audacity and ridiculous embarrassment this redneck clown has turned your country into- You would just go completely insane! Or, if you had the money, you'd leave, which I believe at last record most have. God... seriously... I can have some empathy for the average Iraqi- my own country has also been taken hostage by this clown and his gang... but there is no way, hopefully, that anyone can ever know the level of outrage Iraqis must have now.

Ok, so I am kind of unfriendly to animal testing, and for good reason, anyway. So, when you take an animal from its natural home, and you keep the animal in a cage, and the only time you let the animal out is to perform tests upon it, and these tests are always humiliating and tear down the animal's pride and confidence, and you get angry at the animal for lashing out because he doesn't want these tests done because they hurt, and you do this, day after day, and keep the animal next to other animals undergoing the same torture, and there is nothing you can do, and sometimes maybe one of the lab techs are nice to the animal, but that only makes it worse when the next lab tech yells at the animal, or throws the animal back into the metal cage, and there is no warmth, and no security, and no hope... well, eventually the poor animal goes completely insane. Right now, the Iraqis have no hope that this bullsh*t will ever end, because the clown can still send the mercenaries... and they never know when the next attack will be, so, they have to defend themselves, and they have to be completely mad.... I know I would be.


Open the cages, godd**nit!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Decider]

Quote by: Yarn Maliki isn't dictator, he didn't have the power to meet some of those demands period, and he didn't have the power to meet some of them without losing his office. Democracy has its strengths and weaknesses, but frankly, I don't think Iraq's people are ready to elect a government which will pursue the national interest, instead of various sectional interests. Nevermind the single man Maliki, it is the aggregate form of the government itself. That requested by those Sunnis, did not have popular support in the parliament, and so could not come to be.

You're missing the entire point of this "surge," Yarn. Political reconciliation between the sectarian factions is THE goal. What have we gotten for the surge in exchange for more American death and war expenses? More political stalemate. Whether or not the Iraqis were ready for a democracy begs the question--if the Iraqis can't make the political comprimises demanded of them by our government and people, then why do we continue to support that government with troops on the ground?

Notice also the part in the article that details more violence in Baghdad and ethnic cleansing in Shiite areas. It belies all that rosy talk about defeating Al Qaeda in Iraq, a group that our own military concedes is a tiny fraction of the total Iraqi insurgency.

Leaving a civil war we can't control is actually an easy decision. How we leave--either in a panic or an orderly phased withdrawal--will be the tough part.

[Praxius]

Update:

CTV.ca | Sunnis asked to reconsider quitting Iraq gov't

BAGHDAD -- The Iraqi prime minister's party asked the country's largest Sunni Arab bloc Thursday to reconsider its withdrawal from government, in a last-ditch effort to restore Iraq's national unity government. All six Cabinet ministers from the Iraqi Accordance Front quit Nouri al-Maliki's regime a day earlier to protest what they called the prime minister's failure to respond to a set of demands. Among them were the release of security detainees not charged with specific crimes, the disbanding of militias and the participation of all groups represented in the government in dealing with security issues. Their resignation left only two Sunnis in the 40-member Cabinet, undermining efforts to pull together rival factions and pass reconciliation laws the U.S. considers benchmarks toward healing the country's deep war wounds. Al-Maliki's Islamic Dawa Party issued a statement Thursday calling on the Accordance Front to "reconsider its decision." "The party expresses its concern and regret about this setback for Iraqi politics, an action taken before exploring any dialogue," the statement said. "We need to stand side by side as a national unity government and set aside all differences and cooperate, in order to answer the challenges our people are suffering," it said. But an Accordance Front lawmaker, reacting to the Dawa statement, said Thursday that the bloc would reconsider its withdrawal only if promised "the priority of real partnership." "If we were assured by tangible and concrete promises of real change ... and the priority of real partnership, we would reconsider our stance," Salim Abdullah, a Sunni parliament member, told The Associated Press. But he added that he was not optimistic such assurances would come from al-Maliki. Also Thursday, the U.S. military announced three more soldier deaths: two killed in a mortar or rocket attack Tuesday, and another killed by a roadside bomb Wednesday. It brought to at least 3,659 the number of U.S. military personnel who have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes seven military civilians. Washington has been pushing al-Maliki's government to pass key laws -- among them, measures to share national oil revenues and incorporate some ousted Baathists into mainstream politics. But the Sunni ministers' resignation from the Cabinet -- not the parliament -- foreshadowed even greater difficulty in building consensus when lawmakers return after a monthlong summer recess. In a video conference late Wednesday, President Bush prodded al-Maliki to unite rival factions and show some overdue political progress, the White House said. The two leaders spoke for 45 minutes on a secure video link, part of a regular series of conversations on the war and Iraq's struggling democracy. "The president emphasized that the Iraqi people and the American people need to see action -- not just words -- but need to see action on the political front," White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "The prime minister agreed." The Accordance Front has 44 of parliament's 275 seats, and those politicians will continue in the legislature. The withdrawal of its six Cabinet ministers from the 14-month-old government is the second such action by a faction of al-Maliki's coalition. Five Cabinet ministers loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr quit the government in April to protest al-Maliki's refusal to announce a timetable for the pullout of U.S. forces from Iraq. Altogether at least 142 Iraqis were killed or found dead on Wednesday, including 70 in three separate bombings in Baghdad. The violence came after July ended as the second-deadliest month for Iraqis so far this year, but with the lowest U.S. death toll in eight months. On Thursday, the U.S. military said American and Iraqi troops had killed seven suspects and captured 22 others in two days of raids across Iraq. Among those targeted were emirs, or top-ranking figures, of al-Qaida in Iraq, the U.S. military said. One emir was captured and another was killed Wednesday in separate operations in Mosul, it said. Another emir was captured a day later in Baghdad, it added. U.S. troops also killed four suspects in separate raids in Mosul, Samarra and north of Karmah, the military said in a statement. Twenty other suspects were detained, it said. On Wednesday, Iraqi soldiers also killed two other suspected militants -- alleged members of the Islamic State of Iraq, an al-Qaida-linked group, the U.S. military said in another statement. The American military released information about the raids, but said only Iraqi Army soldiers conducted those operations.

I figured I'd also bold some of the good news of captures and sucesses against the insurgents..... everybody needs good news once in a while.

[Yarn]

Quote by: The Decider You're missing the entire point of this "surge," Yarn. Political reconciliation between the sectarian factions is THE goal. What have we gotten for the surge in exchange for more American death and war expenses? More political stalemate. Whether or not the Iraqis were ready for a democracy begs the question--if the Iraqis can't make the political comprimises demanded of them by our government and people, then why do we continue to support that government with troops on the ground?

When did I say I was for or against a continued presence?

Particularly the surge has achieved reduced sectarian killings. That pleasant statistic being stated however, killings overall have gone up.

We need to leave or do something drastic-whether that be partition, or some form of non-democratic government or something else.

Quote by: The Decider Notice also the part in the article that details more violence in Baghdad and ethnic cleansing in Shiite areas. It belies all that rosy talk about defeating Al Qaeda in Iraq, a group that our own military concedes is a tiny fraction of the total Iraqi insurgency.

An chaotic Iraq would be a good haven for Al Qaeda, and when the dust finnally settled, that reality would probably not change. Losing in Iraq would help Al Qaeda, though losing in Iraq may be and probably is unaviodable.

Quote by: The Decider Leaving a civil war we can't control is actually an easy decision. How we leave--either in a panic or an orderly phased withdrawal--will be the tough part.

Maybe, probably, I don't know.