British army's role in Northern Ireland at an end:

[Praxius]

British army's role in Northern Ireland at an end

The British army will officially end its peacekeeping role in Northern Ireland on Tuesday after a 38-year presence that has involved more than 300,000 personnel and cost the lives of more than 750 soldiers. Since the Good Friday Agreement nine years ago, the army has discreetly lessened its numbers in the mission and slowly dismantled its bases and observation towers. As of midnight Tuesday, the force will see its ranks in the province dwindle to 5,000 soldiers, down from the 27,000 deployed at the height of the sectarian conflict that became known as "the Troubles." "It's a huge psychological step," the Independent's David McKittrick told CBC News on Tuesday in an interview from Belfast. "Everyone here has grown up with heavily armed troops and armoured vehicles in the streets. So the idea that we can get by without them is a huge one." Although full reconciliation between Catholics and Protestants is still "decades away" from being realized, both sides are welcoming the army's historic pullout, he noted. "For once, there aren't two different reactions from Protestants and Catholics," McKittrick said. "Although we have many problems, the sense is things are going to gradually get better." Some 3,700 killed in decades-long conflict In August 1969, British troops with bayonets fixed marched into a Northern Ireland divided along sectarian lines, aiming to prevent the outbreak of civil war under a mission dubbed "Operation Banner." Most of the soldiers and their commanders believed they would only be in Northern Ireland for a few weeks. But years of violence saw about 3,700 killed — including 763 British soldiers and 309 people killed by British troops during the longest continuous campaign in the army's history. At first, the troops' role was to keep the peace between Catholics and Protestants after nightly rioting had exhausted the local police and panicked Northern Ireland's Unionist government into calling on London to send the troops. Initially, the mission appeared to be going well. Many Catholics were happy to see the army, believing their presence would protect them against Protestant rioters. Grainy television images from the early days showed a Catholic woman pressing a British soldier to accept a piece of cake. But as the mission continued, such sentiments among Catholics soon dissipated and were replaced by resentment, distrust and hatred as Britain allowed the Protestant government to wield control over how British forces were used. A newly formed "Provisional" IRA began launching attacks against police and, eventually, the army, killing its first soldier in February 1971. Protestant leaders used the army to impose internment without trial almost exclusively against IRA suspects in Catholic areas. Soldiers' casualty rate in 1970s higher than in Iraq, Afghanistan But perhaps the army's presence in Northern Ireland is best known for the events of January 30, 1972 — known as Bloody Sunday — a day in which British paratroopers shot and killed 13 unarmed Catholic demonstrators in Londonderry during a civil rights march. A second inquiry was established in 1998 by British Prime Minister Tony Blair to find the truth behind the incident. Presided by three judges, including former New Brunswick Chief Justice William Hoyt, the Bloody Sunday inquiry heard testimony from more than 900 witnesses and has yet to present its final findings. The bloodletting would continue for decades, with bombings and shootings spreading to the streets of major British cities, including London. Retired colonel Mike Dewar, a security analyst who served several tours in Northern Ireland, called the death toll in the early 1970s “horrific — a much higher casualty rate than what we have suffered in Iraq or Afghanistan.” Intelligence agents eventually built a detailed picture of the IRA based on surveillance and informers. Undercover army squads wiped out several IRA units in one-sided gun battles in the 1980s and early 1990s, a brutal strategy that Dewar credits with spurring the IRA's ceasefire. “The IRA were clearly infiltrated. The pressure became unbearable for the IRA,” Dewar said. In 1997, after intense negotiations brokered by Blair and Irish Prime Minister Bertie Ahern, a peace process took hold that eventually brought the two sides together into a power-sharing agreement. The IRA formally announced an end to its armed campaign in July 2005 and ordered all its units to place their weapons into arms dumps and cease all activities.

Well that's a good chapter to write... what will happen in the next little while between the Schisms remains to be seen.

[megadeth425]

Took them long enough to do this. Hopefully it's a step closer to Ireland being free of Brittish rule.

[Matt W]

At last. Welcome home, boys.

As for Ireland being united...well. Let's see how well they fare under the power-sharing government first...

[shawmutt]

Quote by: megadeth425 Took them long enough to do this. Hopefully it's a step closer to Ireland being free of Brittish rule.

I thought Braveheart took care of that.

[Jubloz]

Wow, very cool. I really hope the peace is maintained.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Jubloz Wow, very cool. I really hope the peace is maintained.

I'm sure it will.... being Irish myself, I know we get in our little tiffs here and there, esspecially when we drink... but afterwards we forget why we're fighting and just sum it all up to "Tis all in Good Fun, don'cha Know?"

And this joke above follows the same lines.... I'm not trying to insult those who have died over the last.... well... almost a century.... just adding in my sick humor..... Tis all in Good Fun.

[Matt W]

Irish? How long has your family been across the water, exactly?

[undermydesk]

What really is up over there with the anti-Irish attitude of the northern Irish non-Catholics I wonder. I know what goes on here first hand but it's particularly stark and odd in that setting.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Matt W Irish? How long has your family been across the water, exactly?

To break the Ice, My last name is O'Sullivan, and I believe we are.... 3... maybe 4 generations living in New Scotland, aka: Nova Scotia... nice location and holds true to the name.... I'm direct decendant from Donnell O'Sullivan if you know the history of the Siege and March. (Stupid ass Queen Elizabeth I)

I do plan on coming back and getting my castle all spiffed up and rule southern Ireland again.... perhaps this explains my cocky attitude... I'm somewhat royalty.... or was.

[Matt W]

Hmmph. 1 generation down and I'd say you were Irish....but 3/4 generations? Canadian.

undermydesk - the trouble is, Protestant Ulstermen have their own rituals (like the marching season) and their own loyalties (they are fiercely loyal to the Crown), and they fully believe they are going to be persecuted if absorbed into an Irish state.

Given 100 years of bombs, brickbats & bullets, I can understand their paranoia....

[Praxius]

Quote by: Matt W Hmmph. 1 generation down and I'd say you were Irish....but 3/4 generations? Canadian.

Canadian 1st yes.... But what matters is in the heart and mind.... I've studied a lot of my families herritage, all the way back before we became O'Sullivans, way back when we originally lived in Spain, etc.... long story.

But you should check out the story of when Queen Elizabeth I came to Ireland to take us out.... as our family were rebels to the crown who wanted freedom for Ireland.... with the support of Spain due to family ties, and such, we put up a good fight being out numbers, until my ancestor's cousin (or was it uncle?) backstabbed us and ratted to the Brittish the weak spot of the Dunboy Castle and eventually we were brought down.... it's kinda like a Braveheart kinda story....

The History of the Sullivan/O'Sullivan Clan

Not to toot my family's horn, but it's a good story.

Added:

My bad... not directly related to Donnell as by offspring, but through brother/sister connection of the time.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: shawmutt I thought Braveheart took care of that.

Stephen the Insane.... Best... Irish... Character... Ever.

"In order to converse with an equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God"

or

"God tells me he can get me out of this mess, but he's pretty sure you're f**ked."

[shawmutt]

Hmm...heritage is it?

Well, I'm a first generation United Statsian, my mom was born in Canada and moved to the states when she was young. My great great grandfather came over from England, one of my great great great grandparents came from Ireland, another came from Scotland, and yet another was Blackfoot Indian. I got the dirty blonde hair from England, the red beard from Scotland, and the wee...left little toe from Ireland. Not sure where the Blackfoot went. Hence the Shaw...mutt

[Praxius]

Yeah, that's the attitude I was born with, lol.

A little crazy, yet things sometimes make sense..... and most of my insane decisions actually work, lol.

[christibe]

Heritage.

Both sides of mines are, well... tricky to track, willfully?, i would imagine. The Bailey they say comes from Ireland, but I am not convinced as to trade or.. well, otherwise? The McCloud, the Brite.

...we have done our best to, I spose, stay under the radar.?

I'm told that my maternal grandfather's great-grandmother was a Chickasaw chieftain. My grandfather was an orphan, however, and this is the only thing any of us knows.

But the Irish side, quite literally and especially, has been impossible to track. Attempted many times. It makes me sad

[Matt W]

*shrugs* To be honest, I think a lot of us here in the 'old countries' find it quite bewildering that the people of the 'New World' think of themselves as Irish/Scots/English/Dutch/German/whatever. Your ancestors went over there to make a clean break...so embrace it! We who stayed behind have far more in common with other Europeans than you lot.

Anyhow. Back on-topic. I'm glad the deployment is at an end...I can only hope the Stormont government doesn't screw things up yet again.

[Praxius]

probably... but pretty much all the identity of what we know here in the Americas all relate back to the Old World.... Hence where I live, New Scotland, New York, etc...

[shawmutt]

<hijack>

*shrugs* To be honest, I think a lot of us here in the 'old countries' find it quite bewildering that the people of the 'New World' think of themselves as Irish/Scots/English/Dutch/German/whatever.

Old heritages die hard, and America is still relatively young as a country and is conducive to tracing heritages due to our melting pot mentality. Hair color, skin color, and other features are still distinguishable and can be traced to our heritage. Maybe when everyone is tan and finally comes to an agreed upon language we'll stop bringing up our heritage.

The fact that "American" has come to mean "from the United States" bothers me too. I mean, Canadians, Mexicans, Columbians, etc. are technically "American" too.

</hijack>

[Praxius]

Back on that a bit, but yeah, the Americas are a intergrated culture.... you walk down the street and you can see everybody who was born in Canada or the US, they have the accents, etc..... but you also know that their herritage goes back to India, or England, or they're Scottish, German, Russian, etc..... it's physical traits.

As I grew up, it's kinda common for kids to want to know what everybody looks different from one another, and hence we're explained where they originally came from, where I came from, and eventually you get curoious about the history and how you came to where your family is now.... Mine was from here, but before that it was Ireland.... before Ireland, it was Spain.... many centuries ago.....

Most, not all, of the people I know, all know some of their herritage.... see, overall, we were moved here but it's not exactly like a home, but like moving into an apartment..... the Natives of the Americas are much like you, because for as long as they can remember, they've lived here..... us.... much as I imagine it's the same in Australia, are curious about our family identities.....

• Why do I have an Irish name, if I live in Canada?
• Why is Nova Scotia - New Scotland?
• Where did the name of our Country, Canada, come from?

And so forth.....

I dunno if this explains anything better.... but there ya go.

Mind you, just because we know everybody's roots or at least can tell, don't get me wrong and thinking that I judge people based on culture or race..... on the contrary, I am more interested in about finding more information on their own and vice versa.....

It's a good way to learn about history, culture, beliefs, etc..... just sit around and shoot the crap about who you are, where you came from, how your family came to the New World..... we're all the same... people away from the homelands.... making a new homland.... our countries are still very young, and still need to be set in the history books like many in the Old World....

Talking to a few people about their history, I've learned that many years ago, my family and their family helped each other out, or we were at war once apon a time, etc..... and sharing both histories, you learn a bit about your own that you didn't before.

[Trotsky]

I find it strange really, the British Army went in to Northern Ireland to stop the B-specials and the loyalist terror gangs from killing innocent catholics. The IRA started attacking the British soldiers because well they were there and things descended from there into absolute shyte. The irony of the whole thing is if the British army had not been deployed the government of the Irish republic had intended to invade the North to attempt to enforce order and prevent the mayhem spreading south into the Irish republic. This would have facilitated an island-wide civil war which imho would have been as bad if not worse than anything we have seen in the former Yugoslavia. The end result.......Britain backed by the UN/NATO would have had to re-occupy all of the island of Ireland to prevent the problem spilling out into mainland Britain......with approx 1-2million Irish immigrants working in mainland Britain at the time it would have erupted......and we'd all still (well I say we I mean us Irish and Brits) would be living with the dire consequences since.

However back on to topic, glad to see people have grown enough that the army are no longer needed to help protect the police, but saying that I see the jaffa's had a bit of a "hooley" the other night in Bangor with shots being fired at the NIPS....some gimps never learn do they. The NIPS should've fired a few baton rounds into them, that would've quietened 'em. Waiting for the little taig to-rags to start up now on queue cause they sure as hell won't be out done by the jaffa!