S Korean hostage pleads for help:

[Praxius]

BBC NEWS | South Asia | S Korean hostage pleads for help

A South Korean woman held hostage with 21 others in Afghanistan has pleaded for help to secure their release. The woman, who identified herself as Yo Syun Ju, told an Afghan reporter by telephone all the hostages were sick. "Tell them to do something to get us released," she said in an interview carried out in the presence of the Taleban militants holding her captive. A group of 23 Koreans was abducted a week ago. The kidnappers have since killed one of the hostages. In an interview obtained by the BBC from an Afghan journalist, Ms Yo, who said she was from Seoul, described her situation as "dangerous", adding: "Day by day it is getting very difficult... "We are all sick and we have a lot of problems." 'Inhumane act' The Koreans - most of them women - are members of a Christian group doing aid work. On Wednesday, the body of one of the hostages - later identified as 42-year-old pastor Bae Hyung-kyu - was found with multiple bullet wounds in Ghazni province, south-west of the capital Kabul. The office of South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun condemned the killing as an "inhumane act". The Seoul government has sent an envoy to Afghanistan to negotiate the remaining hostages' release. The Koreans were abducted in Ghazni one week ago and the Taleban have threatened to kill them if the Afghan government refused to meet their demands.

I'll leave this open for debate on what course of action you feel should be taken.

[Ibn_Sina]

Obviously, the Afghan government is dealing with a murderous terrorist group. The best thing would be to meet their demands. That way, these civillians could be saved.

[rmnunez]

Blame Bush! This is obviously his fault.

If the solution is up to the Afghan government I suspect we'll just have to chalk it up as a loss.

I'd hope the terrorists could be persuaded of the advantages in extending public attention to their cause by delaying execution, making it more dramatic, maybe they could identify a reason for each execution and tag each potential victim for a failure to accomodate whatever demand.

If they could be persuaded to make the executions elaborate, instead of machinegunning someone in a dusty field. Put the victim's head on a block and recite some religious incantations, deliver the ideological rant and repeat the demands. Record the anxious plea from imminent victim and show that glittering scimitar swinging down, profetic Q'ranic quotes subliminally scrolling across the bottom backwards. Have the hooded executioner display the head and say something about the all merciful and peaceloving Allah. With about 20 they could decapitate a woman every 3 weeks and recite their litany of complaints, I'm sure that would draw a lot more attention and we could focus our debate on each of the demands.

Another advantage is that by extending the programme of executions, its possible these could be prevented, with a couple of repetitions we might be able to discover where the captives are held and raid the place, might even save some.

[arielmessenger]

would help spread the word to your fellow secularists about the Hindu Vedic connection to the Jewish story of Abraham, the Foundational story for Judaism, Zionism, Pauline Christianity, and Islamic terrorism.

Until the world knows that historical evidence shows a fraudulent religious basis to all the Abrahamic religions, these religionists are free to continue their fanatical madnesses, taking turns throughout history killing their neighbors one way or another in great numbers.

Nothing else but Educating intellectuals throughout the world of the phoniness of the Abrahamic religions claiming special relationship with God and spiritual truth which is impossible given their so-called monotheistic god cannot distinguish between polytheistic Vedic gods and Hebrew human beings.

The spiritual authority needs to be addressed that allows Islamic terrorists to operate freely in their own lands. The same for Zionist Judaism that allows Americans to be fooled into siding with Israelis against Palestinians. The same for Evangelical Christians like Bush or Pat Robinson who use the Bible as a weapon to promote war with other nations.

These religionists rule the world because scholars don't know enough to bring Abrahamic religionists down from power. Now (God) has given secularists the smoking gun and ammunition to destroy once and for all time the credibility of Abrahamic religionists for any intelligent human being.

[rmnunez]

ariel, we don't have that much time. They said they were executing one because he was sick (the pastor) and now this other captive says all the hostages are sick. What makes you think anyone or everyone spreading whatever doctrine you think ought to be spread against Abrahamic or any other religions can get your message across to these guys before the rest of their captives get killed too? This is no solution, without getting into whether there's any sense to it.

[arielmessenger]

to protest the Taliban.

Seriously, I don't know how you stop these guys immediately. But I do wish that secularists would stop wasting their time with endless debates with theists like here on Volconvo when they should be organizing NOW against Abrahamic religious leaders to overthrow their power. Nothing's going to change until Abrahamic religious leadership is held up to ridicule as believing in fantastic contradictory myths that are used to make illegal land claims and immoral life taking.

[Praxius]

Sorry airel, you sound just like they do about us.... very, very hypocritical.... I mean towards telling everyone that we must organize NOW against Abrahamic religious leaderships.

Not all of them are like this, not all of your Christian factions are as fanatic as the next..... this generalization is what keeps this kind of garbage continuing in the first place.

It's all the religions fault, it's their fault, it's this person's fault......

Cripes it's all of your faults.... frigging holy wars, cruisades, in the name of God, in the name of my arse is what I say!

Money and Religion are the absolute roots of all evils and they both go hand in hand. They are the major starter of almost every war in history.

I say before anybody begins to ridicule any relgion, they should put all religions on the stand and see what humanitarian crimes each one commited.

Now back to topic a bit... meet their demands, go out into an open area... make the exchange for the priosoners and the civilians.... when they clear on each side and are about to depart... haul out an A-10 or AH-64 and blow the living snot out of the insurgents who kidnapped, along with all the prisioners released.... case closed and kill three birds with one stone.

and if the insurgents got all pissy about being dishonerable for killing them all in a fair trade, tell them to stick it somewhere and them kidnapping civilians to begin with voided them of any honor.

[Osborn F Enready]

Prax said: Sorry airel, you sound just like they do about us.... very, very hypocritical.... I mean towards telling everyone that we must organize NOW against Abrahamic religious leaderships.

Thats typical of fundamentalist extremists, not saying that is for sure what Ariel is, but I sure get that impression from many of the subjective religious posts from him/her.

[Praxius]

Update:

South Korean hostage deadline passes

Desperate, last-minute negotiations continue in Afghanistan Friday for the release of 22 South Korean hostages as a Taliban deadline passed without word of their fate. The latest deadline was set for 3:30 a.m. ET Friday, two days after the Taliban killed the leader of the hostages. Bae Hyung-kyu, a 42-year-old pastor, was found slain with multiple gunshots Wednesday. The Taliban, who want the Afghan government to release Taliban prisoners, have extended the deadline a number of times since the aid workers were captured nine days ago. The lead Afghan negotiator has said everything is being done to win the safe release of the South Koreans, but the negotiations are reportedly chaotic. There are conflicting reports as to just how much progress is being made. One of the Korean hostages begged for help in a telephone interview, aired by U.S. television network CBS on Thursday. The hostage has been identified by Yo Cyun-ju, a 32-year-old former nurse who has been a health-care worker in Afghanistan for three years. "We are in a very difficult time. Please help us," says the woman. "We are all pleading for you to help us get out of here as soon as possible. Really, we beg you." The woman said all of the hostages are sick and in bad condition and described her captivity as very difficult and exhausting. Meanwhile, South Korea's foreign ministry commission met again Friday to talk about the crisis. Last week, Seoul banned all travel to Afghanistan and wants to toughen laws for people who violate the ban. The South Korean aid workers were kidnapped while on a bus trip through Ghazni province on the Kabul-Kandahar highway.

Question:

Why did she call up a US news agency (CBS) to express things, when they are from S. Korea and it's S. Korea who is in the mix in this situaiton, who have to negotiate?

[rmnunez]

She didn't call anyone, her captors did. They want to get this news to the united statians, not to the Koreans. The Koreans have no capacity to meet any of their demands, they aren't shipping weapons to Israel, don't have forces deployed in Saudi Arabia, just a strong US ally and with captured citizens who trying to help in the area.

[Praxius]

Ok the captures called, but it still makes no sense..... The Koreans can't meet their demands, yet their demands are directly to the Koreans, with Korean citizens.... and the demands are in relation to Korean forces there.... the only other factor they don't have control over is the prisioners.

[billybobama]

Quote by: Praxius BBC NEWS | South Asia | S Korean hostage pleads for help I'll leave this open for debate on what course of action you feel should be taken.

Why would sane people go to countries they know are terribly dangerous. I just people would learn sometimes.

[arielmessenger]

If you want to take some action right now go here and sign the petition:
Taliban leaders: free the hostages

And seriously, trying to weasel word your way out of taking action by laying blame at the feet of all religionists is pathetic scapegoating and won't work with me when this problem is specific to one set of religionists, Abrahamics.

Put your money where your mouths are and do something to save human lives! Organize secularists against Abrahamics. They are organized but you guys are not and they have power and you do not.

Get organized! And I'm telling you this as an ACTIVIST, not a religious fundie. No more excuses. If you don't like the way religionists run the world do something more about it than just bitch and moan on talkboards.

Sign the petition at least. And think over what I'm saying without your anti-religion goggles on.

[rmnunez]

The hostages:

(Just a bunch of dumb Christians?)

[Ibn_Sina]

These terrorists are enemies of peaceful Islam and they should be caught and punished...

But hey, their land has been invaded and colonized by USA and the rest. It is more than possible that their loved ones (innocent brothers, sisters, mothers, children, fathers, wives) also died in the hands of invading soldiers. I guess its a matter of an eye for an eye case. That doesn't justify what they are doing, but tells us about their cause.

[arielmessenger]

against innocent victims only confirms the belief held by most non-Muslims that Islam in not a religion of peace and never was.

Because I know that there is no spiritual authority in Muhammad's Islam, I can only recommend Muslim activists seek spiritual truth before they fall further into moral decline.

[rmnunez]

Muslims lack a central religious authority beyond the head national clerical authority (I'd figure its the head mullah at the largest mosque of the capital, perhaps the one where the national ruler prays). In some places they might have more than one, they likely could be ranked based on the size of congregations, but there isn't a structure like for Catholics, established Protestants, Hindus and Buddhists. Hence a unified Muslim denunciation from something like their Pope is impossible, they don't have one.

Most Muslim governments are wary of their clerics who practically monopolize public discourse since political participation is so curtailed. In the religion business it seems fundamentalism sells, it certainly rallies and radicalizes. I'd expect an aspiring Mullah who sought renown, unfetered by any overseeing authority, would easily appreciate the need to whip up a frenzy in his parishoners to gain distinction and improve his draw. Likely faithful in Muslims in large cities can pick among mosques each featuring clerics of varying fundamentalism, they should vote with their feet, place their coins in the collections for those preaching tolerance and understanding.

[Praxius]

Update:



CTV.ca | Taliban claims second S. Korean hostage dead

The Taliban has killed another of the 22 South Korean hostages being held in Afghanistan, according to claims from a purported Taliban spokesperson. Qari Yousuf Ahmadi, who claims to speak for the hardline Islamic militants, told Reuters news service on Monday that the hostage had been killed, bringing the death toll to two. "We shot dead a male captive because the government did not listen to our demands," he said. The Taliban has demanded an equal exchange of Taliban prisoners for the Korean hostages, and had set a deadline of midday Monday. Earlier, Ahmadi said another male, the pastor leading the Christian group, had also been killed. The pastor's body was recovered soon after Ahmadi broke the news to Reuters. "This has been the way the information has been coming out. It was the same situation when the first hostage was killed. We heard it first from Qari Yousuf Ahmadi, the purported Taliban spokesperson," said CTV's Denelle Balfour, reporting from Kandahar. "At this point there's no reason to doubt that it's probably true." The group, which was reportedly comprised of 18 women and five men, were travelling on a bus from Kabul to Kandahar on July 19 when it was boarded by militants and the Koreans were taken captive. A number of deadlines have been set by the Taliban, and have passed without bloodshed until now. On Sunday, Afghan President Hamid Karzai spoke out against the kidnapping for the first time, saying the abduction of "foreign guests," especially woman, violated the tenets of Islam. "This will have a shameful effect on the dignity of the Afghan people," Karzai said in a statement from the presidential palace. Pope Benedict also weighed in on Sunday, saying the abduction of 22 South Korean missionaries was a "grave violation of human dignity." He appealed to the perpetrators to return the hostages unharmed and called it a grave violation of human dignity that clashes with every elementary norm of civility and rights and gravely offends divine law." The Taliban has, according to Ahmadi, submitted a list of Taliban prisoners it wants released, and has not yet heard back from government. Korean delegates have travelled to Afghanistan and are working with Afghan officials as well as tribal leaders to try and negotiate the hostages' release. On Saturday one of the female hostages called Reuters, saying the captors often threaten the hostages with death and make them change locations daily. "Now we're only four, we don't know if others have survived or not. Please save us," she says in English.

[Praxius]

Update:

CTV.ca | S. Korean envoy to meet with Taliban kidnappers

GHAZNI, Afghanistan -- South Korean and Afghan officials searched for a meeting place Thursday after agreeing to hold face-to-face talks with the Taliban to seek the release of the remaining 21 South Korean captives, a chief negotiator said. A delegation of eight South Korean lawmakers, meanwhile, departed for Washington on Thursday to urge the United States to help negotiate the release of the hostages. Earlier South Korean diplomatic efforts have failed to bend Afghanistan's refusal to respond to Taliban demands. The Taliban captors have agreed to meet with South Korea's ambassador but have not found a suitable place, said Waheedullah Mujadidi, head of a delegation negotiating with the Taliban. There was no immediate confirmation from the Taliban that talks would take place. Two of the 23 South Koreans kidnapped on July 19 have been killed. But after another deadline passed Wednesday, purported Taliban spokesman Qari Yousef Ahmadi said the remaining hostages were still alive. The Taliban's key demand is still the release of militant prisoners in exchange for the captives, Ahmadi told The Associated Press. On Wednesday, Afghan army helicopters dropped leaflets warning citizens of upcoming military action in Ghazni province, where the church group volunteers were kidnapped while traveling by bus from Kabul to the southern city of Kandahar. Defense Ministry spokesman Gen. Zahir Azimi said the mission, days or weeks away, had long been planned and had no connection with the hostage crisis. But a show of military force in the region could put the kidnappers under further pressure. At a conference in the Philippines, South Korean Foreign Minister Song Min-soon and U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte agreed to place top priority on freeing the hostages safely, ruling out a military attempt to end the standoff, a South Korean official said Thursday. In Washington, the South Korean delegation was to meet with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns and national security adviser Stephen Hadley. They also planned to meet U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, South Korea's former foreign minister. "We will sincerely plead with the United States to take more substantial and meaningful measures to resolve this crisis," Rep. Cheon Young-se of the liberal Democratic Labor Party said before the delegation set off. South Korea has sent a presidential envoy to Afghanistan and President Roh Moo-hyun has spoken by phone to Afghan President Hamid Karzai. But the Afghan government has remained opposed to a prisoner swap, concerned it would encourage more kidnappings. Afghanistan came under criticism from the U.S. and other Western governments this year for releasing prisoners to win the release of an Italian hostage. Ahmadi said two female hostages were seriously ill and could die. A doctor who heads a private clinic said Afghan physicians would try to visit the hostages Friday and take them medicine. Ahmadi also said that Mullah Omar, the Taliban's elusive leader, appointed three members of the group's high council to oversee the hostage situation. The three have the power to order the killings of the South Koreans at any time, Ahmadi said.

So much for not negotiating with terrorists, but apparently that motto doesn't always work.