CIA to reveal decades of misdeeds

[grandpa]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Whatever. I've laid out my position and explained myself more than once. I'm not rehashing the same things again and I'm not changing my position.

I made a pretty decent argument with my last post I thought. Why should we respect an organization that simply carries out whatever orders come across its desk? It seems to me any such organization should be dismantled instead of defended.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: thx1138 They will stop us from what exactly? Does Iran, Syira or Iraq have troops on U.S. soil?

Incredibly reasonable questions, but they're not applicable to an ideology-driven, globalizing war economy.

Nobody is supposed to acknowledge that the government does things terribly wrong.
Because if we do acknowledge the obvious, it clues us in that perhaps the government is illegitimate, wasteful, contemptful of human life, deadly, brimming with lies, etc. etc.

Or, if we do acknowledge this, we're supposed to shrug it off and pretend we can afford to shrug it off indefinitely.

Grandpa h.

[Hellsea]

This is strange. I agree they should do this, but I wonder why they are making this stuff public. On top of this, it makes me wonder what kind of things will still be classified.

They are making their "transgressions" public because they no longer matter. CIA cases are like milk. They have expiration dates. After a certain point, a case can go into the files. Just like milk gets thrown out. Then it's forgotten for a while. After further time, it can be made public. That is only after they are sure loose ends are tied, and the case is fully closed. No holes.

I was on a site once, that had cases the CIA had let out years ago. Many of them were marked confidential, but all had been called trash. However, these dead cases should not be let out to the public. They make us question even further, what the CIA does. I have no objections to how they handle things, but others do. We can not doubt our goverment, when doing so weakens the country. Telling us about things that should be kept in the shadows is doing just that.

[thx1138]

things that should be kept in the shadows

When the things that are being done in the shadows causes hate and resentment from other counties then the people need to know.

If the CIA had a good track record maybe you would be right, but the fact is the CIA has done very evil deeds in the past and is continuing to them to this day.

[Punkbuster]

Quote by: thx1138 They will stop us from what exactly? Does Iran, Syira or Iraq have troops on U.S. soil? How many wars ships does Iran have off the coast of the U.S.? There are nut jobs on both sides and I hope you both get your wish you can go to your heaven and they can go to thiers, just don't destory the world on your way there. Have fun!

Ahh the moral equivalence argument-
1> Stop us from living our "normal" lives- meaning comfort, no threats of bombs, Air Conditioning, abundant food and mobility. I am sure that some of these things you are against if that is the case- move. I just got back from Germany and for all the green talk there guess what- they want comfort also- just take a few more bike rides than we do- but my what traffic problems!

2> Does Iran, Syria et all have troops on our soil YES Wake up dude. Its called Hezbollah an they are here and have been here. As are what our rogue Government calls "cells".

3> Name the Christian groups worldwide that have declared war on others, have training camps for the means of sending soldiers out throughout the world and spread terror and blow up innocents in clubs and restaurants. Make and disseminate videos about the joys of killing yourself to get to heaven, stone women to death for only RUMOURS of adultry, blow up schools for the crime of teaching women to read etc etc...

4> Oh and about those warships- I know that Israel has done so much wrong in Iran- but when you have a leader who constantly tells another country that he will soon wipe them off the map, we would be simply stupid to not take notice- even the weenie, stay in the middle Euros are scared of them.

Since Government is mostly rogue and wrong- I am sure that you are not for health care for all managed by our inept, corrupt government that is run by unions, could care less about customer service and cant be fired.

[thx1138]

Does Iran, Syria et all have troops on our soil YES Wake up dude.

And you think I'm the conspiracy nut.

Stop us from living our "normal" lives- meaning comfort, no threats of bombs, Air Conditioning, abundant food and mobility.

Oh, yes I forgot about the U.S. citizen's "God given" right to Air Conditioning and mobility.

[rmnunez]

Though air condititioning may not be a 'God Given' right, mobility likely is. The freedom to move about is a fundamental "natural" human right, people don't like to live in cages. Those who worry too much about the origin of law prefer to ascribe a natural origin to fundamental, universal, basic, inherent and inalienable civil rights.

[Punkbuster]

Quote by: thx1138 And you think I'm the conspiracy nut. Ok well the 9-11 guys weren't here first- they just came over the day before to fly the airplanes. And does it really matter that it is USA? It is the infidel my friend that you are one of. Oh, yes I forgot about the U.S. citizen's "God given" right to Air Conditioning and mobility.

Only Americans have AC and want to live comfortably? Be sure and turn yours off tonight- you will save energy and if anything happens to the service you will be prepared.

[RVonse]

I think Scribler makes a very good argument but so does thx1138. When an organization, such as the CIA is routinely involved in secretly killing people just exactly how can this same organization be held accountable? After all we are not talking about a sunday school organization here.

Lets just take Scriblers advice for a moment and assume us voters have finally elected officials who are not corrupt. What then prevents the CIA from holding those officials hostage? The threat of being killed is a big motivator for anyone, even at the highest levels of government. As has already been brought up, it is not clear whether or not Kennedy might have stepped on some of those very toes. And even if you don't want to believe a conspiracy in our government IS possible, you have to admit that it COULD be possible under the circumstances in which they operate.

So just how does the American public really know that the "tail is not waging the dog" after all?

I'm not prepared to say the CIA should be giving up all their secrets either but somehow there has to be some accountability for this organization. Its a catch 22.

[thx1138]

I think Scribler makes a very good argument but so does thx1138. When an organization, such as the CIA is routinely involved in secretly killing people just exactly how can this same organization be held accountable? After all we are not talking about a sunday school organization here.

I'm glad that there are some people that think responding to this thread, welcome.
Refreshing after comments like this...

stop us from living our "normal" lives- meaning comfort, no threats of bombs, Air Conditioning, abundant food and mobility. I am sure that some of these things you are against if that is the case- move.

.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: RVonse Lets just take Scriblers advice for a moment and assume us voters have finally elected officials who are not corrupt. What then prevents the CIA from holding those officials hostage? The threat of being killed is a big motivator for anyone, even at the highest levels of government. As has already been brought up, it is not clear whether or not Kennedy might have stepped on some of those very toes. And even if you don't want to believe a conspiracy in our government IS possible, you have to admit that it COULD be possible under the circumstances in which they operate.

I don't take anything the government does for granted, so I won't rule out your scenario. But should something like that actually be true, this is an entirely separate issue from the covert actions of the CIA becoming public knowledge. If something like this should happen and the CIA threatens the very lives of those elected representatives charged with controlling it, then the CIA becomes a rogue organization within the government and should be completely and immediately dismantled, its officers executed and a new intelligence organization put in its place.

So just how does the American public really know that the "tail is not waging the dog" after all?

I believe I've touched on that already. We give the job of running it to people we can trust. If they fail in that duty, and we don't replace them it's OUR fault.
And if the CIA actually IS a rogue organization is a subject we cannot discuss. We just don't know. And because we don't know, we must make SURE the people running the show are doing their jobs.
As always, the idiot sheep, through their ignorance and apathy assume full responsibility for out of control government agencies, or the whole government itself.

That doesn't exactly make me sleep better, I'll tell you that.

[thx1138]

If something like this should happen and the CIA threatens the very lives of those elected representatives charged with controlling it, then the CIA becomes a rogue organization within the government and should be completely and immediately dismantled, its officers executed and a new intelligence organization put in its place.

Who is going to remove a rogue organization?

I think it was Bill Hicks who say that once a president is elected the group really running things, bring him (or her) into a smoke filled room, lower the lights and on a large screen show the film of JFK being shot.
Then they turn to the new president and said "Now here is what we want you to do.... any questions?"

We give the job of running it to people we can trust. If they fail in that duty, and we don't replace them it's OUR fault.

I think the people who can be replaced are just window dressing of the government. The owners of the store don't change with fashions of the season. Long dresses one year, short dresses the next, it doesn't matter you still pay the same store for that dress.

Who controls the money supply of a country controls the government.
How do they control? By debt.

This is an old video but I still think it hits on truth. I may not agree with angle the speaker has, but he does know a lot about the what has been happening. The Capitalist Conspiracy: An Inside View of International Banking by G. Edward

[Scribbler1]

Now we're getting into "what if" territory. And if your scenario is true then this whole thread has no point. If the CIA can't be controlled then we can't scrap it, force it to release all its secrets or influence it in any way.
I happen to still think a properly run congress and presidency can, and SHOULD prevent these situations from happening.

In other words, that's a defeatist attitude to such a degree your whole premise is "We're screwed. We can't do anything so we might as well give up."

[thx1138]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Now we're getting into "what if" territory. And if your scenario is true then this whole thread has no point. If the CIA can't be controlled then we can't scrap it, force it to release all its secrets or influence it in any way. I happen to still think a properly run congress and presidency can, and SHOULD prevent these situations from happening. In other words, that's a defeatist attitude to such a degree your whole premise is "We're screwed. We can't do anything so we might as well give up."

Who is going to vote a properly run congress and president into office? The same sheeple that should not see information of what the CIA has been up to because they can understand it?
They are too busy with watching TV or fighting the game of left and right. If you only have two horses running and you feed/control them both, then it doesn't matter who wins.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: grandpa WP: CIA to air decades of dirty laundry - washingtonpost.com Highlights - MSNBC.com This is strange. I agree they should do this, but I wonder why they are making this stuff public. On top of this, it makes me wonder what kind of things will still be classified. Grandpa h.

It is being done periodically.
I do not think all the data is going to be declassified.

Example :
J.F.K. assassination.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: thx1138 Who is going to vote a properly run congress and president into office? The same sheeple that should not see information of what the CIA has been up to because they can understand it?

They're going to HAVE to or we ARE screwed.
But I don't feel the CIA has THAT much power in this government anyway. Without some kind of proof, the argument that they ARE a rogue agency is pure CT and cannot be debated.
The CIA does not control the entire government, and that includes the military. If they step too far out of line the rest of the government can deal with them. If they really are out of control, it would be because the politicians are using them improperly.

[thx1138]

Quote by: Scribbler1 They're going to HAVE to or we ARE screwed. But I don't feel the CIA has THAT much power in this government anyway. Without some kind of proof, the argument that they ARE a rogue agency is pure CT and cannot be debated. The CIA does not control the entire government, and that includes the military. If they step too far out of line the rest of the government can deal with them. If they really are out of control, it would be because the politicians are using them improperly.

Unless the former CIA agants are lying in this video or the CIA does run operations on it's own.
U.S. Foreign Policy - Secret Wars of the CIA

[rmnunez]

The records released confirm allegations maintained by Agency critics. And they've done this before, the records do become stale and can be gradually released. It makes sense and helps historians and political analysts understand decisions then being made. From time to time there are former agents who've published memoirs and analyses, historical accounts of the Agency's work, their stories are confirmed in these releases. These records aren't scandalous, revealing, outrageous, amazing, astonishing or surprising, they seem silly and insignificant (probably why they were released).

I couldn't fairly appraise the Agency's performance only going by the rumours (cornfirmed or not) of their failures. Since the CIA doesn't periodically publish its successes, its hard to say whether they are doing a good job.

[thx1138]

Stage6 · Zambucas Mix Channel · 638 Ways to Kill Castro - Video and Download

This video is a good follow up.