Israel Jerusalem policy condemned

[xyzer]

Right shrike..my reading show the Semites were in the area way back when. The Jews had just as much right to the land as the Palestinians and...were only given a small portion of it? The difference was they invited others to join the nation and gave the newcomers a stable society. Not so the rest of the Palestinians in the area? They still are fighting for power among themselves. They blame the Jews for their poverty and chaos? And yet there is much more to Palestine than the Jews have? There are all sorts of oil wealthy Islamic nations in the area and none seem to help the Palestinians. All they do is either attack of threaten Israel!
Go figure?

areilmessanger, I wasn't aware the British ever tried to colonize Palestine? From what I read they were happy to get out of there after WW2? No indirect consequences of colonialism there?

[shrike]

There is all kinds of proof Ashkenazis are Europeans with no more Semitic genes in them than any Indo-European peoples living in the Caucausus and Southern Russian region

Then present them.

I am of Ashkenazi descent which was determined by dna testing for Ashkenazi markers. I have ancestral relationships in Poland, Ukraine, Austria-Hungary, Netherlands, and Uzbekistan, but not a single Semitic marker showed up connecting my ancestry to the Holy Land. Ashkenazis were Khazar converts to Judaism, nothing more than that.

Only on of you grandparents is Jew anyway why should I believe anonymous poster and not peer reviewed researches?

[Nono]

Quote by: xyzer I'm inclined to dismiss it as the ravings of illogical madmen with an anti Israeli agenda!

That's because you don't read the papers, which have been talking about the consequences of Israeli occupation and de facto annexation for 'bout four decades now.

OK, xyzer, put your money where your mouth is. Explain to us what the ICRC's "anti Israeli" agenda is.

Well, c'mon. I haven't got all day.

[The Decider]

Quote by: shrike As I said the Geneva is not applicable at all the US opinion was done before Oslo agreement and didn’t taked it in the consideration.

Well, if the US changed its opinion on the legality of Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories, and the applicability of the Geneva Conventions, then by all means provide the evidence.

[arielmessenger]

You keep spouting off as if you could prove Ashkenazis are somehow Semitic while I can tell you to just look at any of a number of websites, Google-Ashkenazi-genetics, and see for yourself that Ashkenazis are a breed apart, true, in fact, so imbred as to to have Ashkenazi genes used as controls for genetic variations in human populations. But Ashkenazis are still in the same European gene set as the most Eastern Europeans, just far more imbred due to strictly following the Jewish racial purity mandates far better than the real Semitic Jews, ancient and modern Sephardim, ever did.

And as you know, Ashkenazis are the vast majority of Jews, coming in at 92% of the whole Jewish world population in 1962, i.e. before the Israelis started fudging with the Sephardic/Ashkenazi ratios in Israel skewering the Ashkenazi figures now to an unreliable 80% of all Jews.

How did the dna testing company trace my Ashkenazi genes without any Semitic genes showing up? Shrike? How did they arrive at these locations for my ancestry without any Semitic genes showing up that would trace the lineage much farther southwest than Uzbekistan, in the heart of the old Khazar kingdom.

[Yarn]

Israel consistently responds to small raids by killing hundreds of civillians, and severely damaging economies which support millions. Thats evil.

Even when unprovoked, it takes selfish action, which cripples the Paletistinian economy.

A country which cannot exist without impoverishing and murdering massive numbers of people, should not exist.

[GHook93]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Your nation consistently violates the Geneva conventions, shrike. Is that an international law or not?

What does the other side do? Again you will selectively forget anything that the Arabs/Palestinians/Muslims do! That is typical trait of anti-semitism.

[GHook93]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Geneva convention applies to ALL nations.

Yet Arab nations are the quickest to ignore it. What happens to American POWs in Iraq, they lose their heads.Yet you will again selectively forget this.

[xyzer]

Israel consistently responds to small raids by killing hundreds of civillians, and severely damaging economies which support millions. Thats evil.

Hmm yarn? So 'small raids" are really OK? Like 'small murders"? So the latest hurlings of great numbers of missiles, into Israel, by terrorist factions in Palestine is OK? The fact that they are directed at the civilian populace of Israel is OK because those Israelis have harmed them over the past 50 years?
Why is it that Palestinian depredations on innocents in Israel(bombs in the market place, missiles over the border, raids and kidnappings over the Israeli border) are played down and accepted, while retaliation by Israel is overblown with criticism? Why do perpetrators become victims?

nono posts..

That's because you don't read the papers, which have been talking about the consequences of Israeli occupation and de facto annexation for 'bout four decades now.

Hey nono, I do read the papers but I rely more on the historic record(much more factual than the newspapers) since the Partition of Palestine. It is replete with attacks on Israel. Attacks by most all its Islamic neighbors..A jihad of continuing violence.

I don't countenance some of the measures that Israel has taken to combat this half century war. But when it pulled back from Gaza and some of the West Bank the records show the attacks increased? The missile attacks, riots and other violence rose in those areas. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the historic record and read the news accounts with them in mind?

[shrike]

Quote by: The Decider Well, if the US changed its opinion on the legality of Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories, and the applicability of the Geneva Conventions, then by all means provide the evidence.

The law is not a hard science. Laws can be interoperated in various ways as it suits interests of the countries.

[shrike]

You keep spouting off as if you could prove Ashkenazis are somehow Semitic

I already provided you link to the researches many times.

A study of haplotypes of the Y chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al[10] found that the Y chromosome of some Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced mostly to the Middle East. The first research on Ashkenazi maternal ancestry was less conclusive. A 2002 study by Goldstein et al[11] found that "the women's origins cannot be genetically determined", but that "his own speculation" was that "most Jewish communities were formed by unions between Jewish men and local women." More recent research indicates that a significant portion of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry is also of Middle Eastern origin. A 2006 study by Behar et al[12], based on haplotype analysis of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), suggested that about 40% of the current Ashkenazi population is descended matrilineally from just four women. These four "founder lineages" were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE. According to the authors, "The observed global pattern of distribution renders very unlikely the possibility that the four aforementioned founder lineages entered the Ashkenazi mtDNA pool via gene flow from a European host population." Both the extent and location of the maternal ancestral deme from which the Ashkenazi Jewry arose remain obscure. Here, using complete sequences of the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), we show that close to one-half of Ashkenazi Jews, estimated at 8,000,000 people, can be traced back to only four women carrying distinct mtDNAs that are virtually absent in other populations, with the important exception of low frequencies among non-Ashkenazi Jews. We conclude that four founding mtDNAs, likely of Near Eastern ancestry, underwent major expansion(s) in Europe within the past millennium.[12][13][14

Ashkenazi Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
,

Google-Ashkenazi-genetics, and see for yourself that Ashkenazis are a breed apart, true, in fact, so imbred as to to have Ashkenazi genes used as controls for genetic variations in human populations.

I don't going to Google anything if you have scientific researches that will prove you POV than present them until that its your specualation that not substantiated by any facts.

How did the dna testing company trace my Ashkenazi genes without any Semitic genes showing up? Shrike? How did they arrive at these locations for my ancestry without any Semitic genes showing up that would trace the lineage much farther southwest than Uzbekistan, in the heart of the old Khazar kingdom

You only one quarter Jew so you genetic test are irrelevant anyway why should I believe anonymous poster in the forum and not scientific researches.

[arielmessenger]

I told you before that those so-called "research studies" are completely bogus in genetic studies. They are another attempt by Jewish authors to backfill the hideous moral lapse of Ashkenazi European Jews of stealing another people's land using a lie to justify it--the lie of having ancestral genetic ties to Semitic peoples in the Holy Land.

I will explain it again why the Jewish studies you quote are bogus: Here's what happens when any Semitic Jew marries and has offspring with Eastern European Gentiles. The first generation is 50% Semitic Jewish, 50% Gentile. The second generation is 25% Semitic Jewish, 75% Gentile. By the seventh generation or about 150 years, the Gentile percentage is over 99% and the Semitic Jewish portion less than one percent. That's only in 150 years. By our times the Semitic Jewish portion in Ashkenazis is virtually undetectable except by overzealous Zionist Jews selling Jewish Israel.

[shrike]

I told you before that those so-called "research studies" are completely bogus in genetic studies. They are another attempt by Jewish authors to backfill the hideous moral lapse of Ashkenazi European Jews of stealing another people's land using a lie to justify it--the lie of having ancestral genetic ties to Semitic peoples in the Holy Land.

Yes of course they are bogus. They don't fit you worldview. So you fast to dismiss them. Did you read the researches?
Btw are you genetic by education. Because you make many bold statements without any proof whatsoever only you words.

will explain it again why the Jewish studies you quote are bogus: Here's what happens when any Semitic Jew marries and has offspring with Eastern European Gentiles. The first generation is 50% Semitic Jewish, 50% Gentile. The second generation is 25% Semitic Jewish, 75% Gentile. By the seventh generation or about 150 years, the Gentile percentage is over 99% and the Semitic Jewish portion less than one percent. That's only in 150 years. By our times the Semitic Jewish portion in Ashkenazis is virtually undetectable except by overzealous Zionist Jews selling Jewish Israel

They not Jews anymore there a very rare cases that Jew marry gentile and if it does they children not longer consider themselves a Jews and certainly a grandchildren too.
And of course scientific researches are telling otherwise so I prefer believe them than anonymous poster on some debate forum

[pikatore]

Uhh shrike, hes using simple MATHS to make his counter argument.

Over such a long period of time, the genes would have been super-diluted. Even if your sources are accurate, it doesn't matter. Maybe I should try and take back Spain because I'm one fifteenth Spanish.

[shrike]

Uhh shrike, hes using simple MATHS to make his counter argument.

I already countered. If Jew marry Gentile. He usually was excluded from Jewish community. So his children are not Jews any more and don't usually t consider themselves such especially if they marry gentile again. So they don't count to general Jewish population

[The Decider]

Quote by: shrike The law is not a hard science. Laws can be interoperated in various ways as it suits interests of the countries.

I suppose your theory of situational law applies to the Palestinians and Hezbollah also. Hey, whatever suits their own interests goes. I'll remember that for the next time you claim the moral high ground on Israel's behalf.

[Epistemologist]

Quote by: GHook93 What does the other side do? Again you will selectively forget anything that the Arabs/Palestinians/Muslims do! That is typical trait of anti-semitism.

No, when all's said and done, that's a typical trait of survival, on both sides.

[pikatore]

Here's an interesting site to look at. Yes, it has it's own opinion, but it's still a good read. Don't try to claim any truth twisting, shrike. just read it. I find it to be excellent support for my argument.

The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

A short snippet:

The standard Zionist position is that they showed up in Palestine in the late 19th century to reclaim their ancestral homeland. Jews bought land and started building up the Jewish community there. They were met with increasingly violent opposition from the Palestinian Arabs, presumably stemming from the Arabs’ inherent anti-Semitism. The Zionists were then forced to defend themselves and, in one form or another, this same situation continues up to today. The problem with this explanation is that it is simply not true, as the documentary evidence in this booklet will show. What really happened was that the Zionist movement, from the beginning, looked forward to a practically complete dispossession of the indigenous Arab population so that Israel could be a wholly Jewish state, or as much as was possible. Land bought by the Jewish National Fund was held in the name of the Jewish people and could never be sold or even leased back to Arabs (a situation which continues to the present). The Arab community, as it became increasingly aware of the Zionists’ intentions, strenuously opposed further Jewish immigration and land buying because it posed a real and imminent danger to the very existence of Arab society in Palestine. Because of this opposition, the entire Zionist project never could have been realized without the military backing of the British. The vast majority of the population of Palestine, by the way, had been Arabic since the seventh century A.D. (Over 1200 years) In short, Zionism was based on a faulty, colonialist world view that the rights of the indigenous inhabitants didn’t matter. The Arabs’ opposition to Zionism wasn’t based on anti-Semitism but rather on a totally reasonable fear of the dispossession of their people.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: GHook93 Yet Arab nations are the quickest to ignore it. What happens to American POWs in Iraq, they lose their heads.Yet you will again selectively forget this.

We were talking about Jerusalem and the Israelis v Palestinans, Mr Red Herring.

[Epistemologist]

Quote by: PatrickHenry We were talking about Jerusalem and the Israelis v Palestinans, Mr Red Herring.

They're all the same to him though? Iraqis, Lebanese, Palestinians, all bloody brown people enveloping God's chosen people? :rolleyes:

But eh, who's to blame? It's a prolonged struggle for survival on all sides, regardless of who's justly there.