Deadly shooting at US university

[fushigi]

Uh, my comment was that the state of emergency wasn't necessary. I'd say that's pretty much in line with saying long arguments about gun control, immigration, Prozac, and any other topic using this event as their primary argument are completely unfounded.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: brien Is this because people make statements that aren't true and then others try to prop it up? Is it because I have proved those statements to be patently false? I promptly admit when I am wrong but apparently when others are proven wrong around here, they feel no such obligation. So be it.

The only reason his statement wasn't true was because you made a distinction between "prevented" and "greatly reduced the death toll." That's a nit, and you picked it. Now, you want to pick nits, that's fine; I've done it myself, more than once. But just pick the sucker and move on -- don't drag it out for half a dozen posts, denying the allegations from the other side when the only ground you have to stand on is a slight semantic distinction.

Patently false, my aunt Fanny.

I think maybe we should branch this entire discussion out, start all of these threads we're mentioning here, rather than keep tying them into this thread. I think this one would be best used for updates. In fact, I'm going to go post in the Outburst Violence thread right now.

[ZNFYRH]

Thank goodness I've been sticking with the stance of waiting for more information.

Jason's post #136 is the type of thing I've been waiting for.

[Slevin57]

The state of emergency was declared to allow for any extra government assistance that would not normally be provided. I.e. the national guard if the situation had turned out badly.

It's possible that people could have reacted in rage instead of grief.

[Chris]

Quote by: Chris the Chees The answer is none. And of course incidents like this could be reduced if not eliminated. Remove the ability to easily aquire guns and you remove the threat of random spree shootings.

In the past decade you are right But in 1996 -

CBC News In Depth: School shootings

March 13, 1996:
Dunblane Primary School, Dunblane, Scotland

A 43-year-old unemployed former storeowner, Thomas Hamilton, cuts the telephone lines to Dunblane Primary School in central Scotland and enters, armed with two pistols, two revolvers and more than 700 cartridges. He begins shooting in the school gymnasium, killing a teacher and 16 children many of them under the age of six. Subsequent investigation found that Hamilton had been a former Scout leader who had questioned by police several times after complaints about his behaviour around young children. The controversy surrounding the tragedy led to tighter gun controls.

Not nearly as much as the US though. There are a few in Canada though.

[fushigi]

Perhaps the ONLY relevant thing to debate coming out of this event is whether or not people on anti-depressants should be allowed to purchase firearms. It's much like Socrates' argument from The Republic:

Quote by: Socrates Ought I, for example, to put back into the hands of my friend, who has gone mad, the sword which I borrowed of him when he was in his right mind?

Of course, this brings up many privacy issues - when Americans' medical history starts to interfere with their right to own firearms.

[brien]

Double post

[brien]

Quote by: Chris the Chees A pedantic nit-pick, and utterly worthless.

When I am correct, you anti gunners call it a dodge and a nit pick.:rolleyes: Talk about worthless.

[brien]

The only reason his statement wasn't true was because you made a distinction between "prevented" and "greatly reduced the death toll." That's a nit, and you picked it

The next time I make a statements and other prove it isn't true, I will call it nit picking. Right. There is a big difference between prevention and mitigation in the law. Try telling your sorry excuse to a judge and see what the law does in a case where something is mitigated rather than prevented. Why can't you people just admit when you are wrong. What the guy wrote was wrong. I yi yi :rolleyes:

Edit to add. It is worthless to waste my time with such arrogant people who can't admit their mistakes.

[pikatore]

It's even more hilarious how you stubbornly deny any message in the link I gave you, implied or not, about how tradegies like this would be prevented had the students be allowed to carry arms on campus.

It's not our problem if you can't see that message. Or maybe you do, and you are just too plain stubborn to see that the whole POINT of that rant in the link was to FURTHER a pro-gun agenda.

I haven't made any mistakes. I never made any false quotes, and I made a decent claim. So stop being a jerk. I'm not arrogant.

[brien]

Quote by: pikatore It. I haven't made any mistakes. I never made any false quotes, and I made a decent claim. So stop being a jerk. I'm not arrogant.

Talk about a stubborn jerk. You aren't man enough to admit your error in making a statement that simply isn't true. I proved it but you are so arrogant you can't admit your mistake. Your method of attacking me rather than admitting your mistake is a tired old denial that is quite transparrent and is simply childish. I refuse to debate people who can't or simly won't admit their mistakes because they argue from a false premise so it pre-empts me from participation. Sorry about that.

[ZNFYRH]

Can you guys knock it off or does the warning need to be official?

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: brien When I am correct, you anti gunners call it a dodge and a nit pick.:rolleyes: Talk about worthless.

I called it a dodge because I made specific comments about your posts concerning THIS event, and you claimed the mods asked you not to discuss past shooting instances. And your out-of-context and unattributed quotes don't help.

[brien]

I merely complied with the mod. Call it what ever you wish. My views upon firearms can be found in other threads that are now ongoing.

[KSoDBartman]

Quote by: Chris the Chees A pedantic nit-pick, and utterly worthless.

Somehow I doubt the individuals who might have been spared if someone had taken this fool down before the cops finally got there would consider their life a pedantic nit.

[KSoDBartman]

My take on this whole gun situation is this: VT removed from students and staff the ability to defend themselves by banning guns on campus. As such, VT should assume the responsibility of ensuring their safety. When they fail, as they obviously did in this case, a fine should be imposed for victim restitution.

When you compel someone to give up their ability to defend themself, you become responsible for their defense.

[pikatore]

Quote by: KSoDBartman Somehow I doubt the individuals who might have been spared if someone had taken this fool down before the cops finally got there would consider their life a pedantic nit.

... you obviously came in here late.

The fact remains, that this fool bought his guns from the local store legally, and was able to waltz on campus and open fire.

If there are going to be psycho nutbags like this guy, do you think the possibility they will get into a firefight faze them one tiny little bit??? Do you really??

[KSoDBartman]

Quote by: pikatore ... you obviously came in here late. The fact remains, that this fool bought his guns from the local store legally, and was able to waltz on campus and open fire. If there are going to be psycho nutbags like this guy, do you think the possibility they will get into a firefight faze them one tiny little bit??? Do you really??

I don't think you read for comprehension.

[ZNFYRH]

Quote by: KSoDBartman if someone had taken this fool down before the cops finally got there

And how, pray tell, would someone have "taken the fool down" if they didn't know of his prior actions that day and he wasn't openly brandishing firearms before the second shooting?

[pikatore]

Quote by: KSoDBartman As such, VT should assume the responsibility of ensuring their safety. When they fail, as they obviously did in this case, a fine should be imposed for victim restitution.

That, my friend, is ridiculous.

Unless the place is locked down like a bloody prison, and everyone totes a gun (which is something that i find quite disturbing), you won't stop crazy dudes like this one from doing thier thing.