Deadly shooting at US university

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: brien Wouldn't have made one bit of difference here since the gun's serial numbers were filed off and have been determined to be illegal.

Right. And the point is, an armed campus would not have made a bit of difference either, because this killer would have found a way around that problem: he would have used something like a bomb. Something that armed people could not reasonably expect to detect prior to its use.

I said earlier in this thread that I don't think there is any effective prevention for things like this -- I think McVeigh proved that. The question is, is there any way to determine what makes someone willing to kill in this manner, and is there anything we can do about it?

[brien]

I said earlier in this thread that I don't think there is any effective prevention for things like this

Agreed. However, that said, an incident like this involving firearms can be mitigated by another firearm, quickly.

[Slevin57]

Well that is all speculative at this point.

Regardless 33 people are dead from this incident. The scary thing to me is that these types of events are unpreventable. All the security in the world will not prevent these things from happening.

It's unfortunate that we have a habit of forgetting. We may not be able to prevent things like this, but if people like this South Korean man would have sought help, Virginia Tech might not be stained with the blood of innocent students.

I live near VT, and while copy cat violence concerns me I refuse to give in to fear.

[fushigi]

Both sides on the "gun control" issue are overstating their case IMO. As brien pointed out, the gun was illegal. So even a gun ban wouldn't have prevented the student from getting the gun and using it.

However, the other argument - that the restriction on guns on the campus led to all the deaths - is fatuous as well. How many students would have been armed in the German class? Any? I'd be very surprised if campuses where guns are legal have over 1% of the student body armed at any given moment. And even if they were armed, they wouldn't be as effective as a swift campus police force could be with one call from a cell phone.

[Chris]

This guy wasnt even a citizen apparently


ABC News: Shooter Identified as Cho Seung-Hui, 23

Cho Seung-Hui

Wonder why he was allowed to buy a Glock? Oh thats it the lax gun laws in VA - Yeah I forgot.

[brien]

How many students would have been armed in the German class?

There is no way to tell. Particulary because, before this incident, a student who had a legal permit to carry had been reprimanded for possessing a gun on campus. News of this, would have discouraged those who have legal permits to exercise their right to carry on the campus.

[brien]

Quote by: Chris This guy wasnt even a citizen apparently ABC News: Shooter Identified as Cho Seung-Hui, 23 Cho Seung-Hui Wonder why he was allowed to buy a Glock? Oh thats it the lax gun laws in VA - Yeah I forgot.

If the guy wasn't a citizen, he could NOT buy a firearm legally. He wasn't "allowed" to buy any firearm. It is being reported the guns had their SN filed off and he got them illegally. This has nothing to do with "lax gun laws in VA"

[tinybear]

So the guy's Korean! *Phew* What a relief. For a while there I thought there'd be backlash against Chinese students.

[GHook93]

Quote by: CoffeeSaint Right. And the point is, an armed campus would not have made a bit of difference either, because this killer would have found a way around that problem: he would have used something like a bomb. Something that armed people could not reasonably expect to detect prior to its use. I said earlier in this thread that I don't think there is any effective prevention for things like this -- I think McVeigh proved that. The question is, is there any way to determine what makes someone willing to kill in this manner, and is there anything we can do about it?

A campus of armed students is INSANE, arrogant and ignorant. I can't believe anyone is even attempting to argue this. Are people become that out of touch with reality that they can even see a hint of rationality in that argument. :(

[Autolykos]

Quote by: GHook93 A campus of armed students is INSANE, arrogant and ignorant. I can't believe anyone is even attempting to argue this. Are people become that out of touch with reality that they can even see a hint of rationality in that argument. :(

It would be nice if you could support this thesis with logical arguments. Simply calling it "insane, arrogant and ignorant" etc. is speaking in platitudes.

- Rob

[ZNFYRH]

I'm a big fan of waiting for the official reports before I pass judgment on something.

Call me crazy, but I could care less how he got the guns. First I want to know why he committed the crime.

A gun is a weapon and weapons are tools and tools are anything that provide an advantage in accomplishing a task. They only motivate a crime if the advantage they offer is enough to sway a decision.

Ultimately, I'd rather find out what drove him to commit this crime and solve that problem instead.

[Chris]

Quote by: brien If the guy wasn't a citizen, he could NOT buy a firearm legally. He wasn't "allowed" to buy any firearm. It is being reported the guns had their SN filed off and he got them illegally. This has nothing to do with "lax gun laws in VA"

Yeah I know the reports are sketchy at first but I did read this:

MyFox WGHP | Va. Tech Shooter Identified as Cho Seung-Hui

One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol.

Now this could have been him trying to throw people off, or someone else might have bought it, but no matter how you slice it, a psychopath acquired a gun in Lax Virginia.

[jose]

Quote by: brien Agreed. However, that said, an incident like this involving firearms can be mitigated by another firearm, quickly.

"Me and Ted and [student] Rob Sievers went out to look. A professor ran up the stairs and said, 'Peter [Odighizuwa] has got a gun and he's shooting.' I ran back and told the class to get out. They went out the back way," Bridges said. "We went down, too, and Peter was in the front yard. I stopped at my vehicle and got a handgun, a revolver. Ted went toward Peter, and I aimed my gun at him, and Peter tossed his gun down.

Richmond Times Dispatch (Virginia)

January 18, 2002

John Lott's website

[brien]

Odighizuwa, who was wrestled to the ground by fellow students, one of whom aimed his own revolver at Odighizuwa, could face the death penalty if convicted.

This fact was conveinetly left out by some of the mainstream media reports. When I first googled the incident, I read a report that mentioned the perp was "wrestled to the ground" but there was no mention of a student aiming a handgun at the guy.

Media Ignore Fact That Gun Owners Stopped School Shooter

Two of the three Virginia law students who overpowered a gunman in a fatal school shooting were armed and used their weapons to disarm the shooter. Yet of the 280 stories written about the shooting, a mere four mentioned the fact that the heroic students were armed and used their guns to halt the rampage

Apparently many in the media don't wish to publisize the fact that armed students can make a difference. Typical.:rolleyes:

[ZNFYRH]

Let's stop the political bullshit and get back to the topic...

Va. Tech gunman writings raised concerns - Yahoo! News

News update, with potential information about why this kid did what he did.

And for you types that need to stand on a soap box about guns, a non-citizen with a green card can purchase a firearm in Virginia. That's how this kid got a gun. At least one of them was legally his.

The reason his mental problems weren't a factor were because his therapy was at the school level, which is confidential and doesn't come up in a firearms background check.

[Chris]

ahh, so with time, we will find more answers.
hang on, was there one gunman or 2? And wasnt Cho responsible for more deaths? didnt he shoot himself, after being surrounded by police?

Police identify US university gunman. 18/04/2007. ABC News Online

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Autolykos It would be nice if you could support this thesis with logical arguments. Simply calling it "insane, arrogant and ignorant" etc. is speaking in platitudes. - Rob

How many students, running around with a gun looking for the perp, would have been shot by other armed students after being mistaken FOR the perp? No one knew how many shooters there were. If you were armed, and came upon somone with a gun in this situation, would you stop and ask if he was the perp? Which one of you would wait for the other to shoot first?

[Chris]

Brien, I just looked it up, quit littering this thread with a 5 year old story.

List of deadly campus shootings | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

Jan. 16, 2002: Graduate student Peter Odighizuwa, 42, recently dismissed from Virginia's Appalachian School of Law, returns to campus and kills the dean, a professor and a student before being tackled by students. The attack also wounds three female students. Odighizuwa is serving six life sentences after pleading guilty.

[brien]

Quote by: Chris Brien, I just looked it up, quit littering this thread with a 5 year old story. List of deadly campus shootings | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle

I don't think I was the first to mention it. Please check post # 73. But it is relevant in terms of what the media does and does not report to us.

[brien]

And for you types that need to stand on a soap box about guns, a non-citizen with a green card can purchase a firearm in Virginia. That's how this kid got a gun. At least one of them was legally his.

As much as others who feel the need to be on a soap box with their knee jerk reactions to ban guns every time we have an incident in the US, I am here to counter that vacuous argument.

If the perp did indeed have legal firearms, I stand corrected, if his firearms were legal. I don't know of any firearms whose serial numbers have been filed off, to be legal.