Israel seeks all clear for Iran air strike

[Chaossaber314]

Quote by: RickSp Respect? Not too likely.

Yeah well. I was being facetious.

[notworthabean]

Quote by: Technosoul In the miscellaneous section I have a thread called "My review of news stories" and I posted a number of news stories about this topic, which I had researched. Israel is absolutly not acting in self defence because Iran is not attacking Israel presently. Recent inspections of Iran nuclear facilities has proven that they are creating nuclear plants for peaceful purposes and not as weapons. The inspections also revealed that most of the statements made about Iran by the Bush White House are false. When other Muslem nations see that Israel represents a major danger with it's "first stike" policy they no doubt will need to protect their interests by aiding in the defense of Iran. Iran would counter-strike and could possibly wipe out Israel after shooting down their jets or bombers. Along with holy sites concidered sacred to the Christian community and with Jewish people around the globe. The cluster bombs that must be used for underground facilities are not sergical and sometimes stray into non-military locations (populared areas). Norway is presently attempting to get cluster bombs outlawed with a gathering of nations ready to take action. Iran can easly control the Persion Gulf where most of the oil ships must pass through, and that war would cut off the supply of oil to many nations and the price at the pump here would skyrocktet to $10.00 per gal.

1) the inspectison were far from through

2) why are they so secreitive about thier nuclear project then

3) most of the muslim nations int he region perceive iran as a major threat to their stability, iran is shi'ite the rest are sunni.

4) if iran could knock israel out now, I'm sure they woudl try, as it is they would not be able to

5) I've heard the claim about the farsi before, they all talk about destroy israel in some sense or another, its most defiently a threat to volicne

6) it is illogical for a country of israels size to let a country irans size prepare for war so they can have a "fair fight" just like it would be for kids in their size situation figthing.

[shrike]

Quote by: Technosoul Israel is absolutly not acting in self defence because Iran is not attacking Israel presently.

Of course it is maybe in not doing in directly but via proxy.Its supplying it weapons training it fighters send Iran experts and doing everything it can to wage war against Israel

Recent inspections of Iran nuclear facilities has proven that they are creating nuclear plants for peaceful purposes and not as weapons.The inspections also revealed that most of the statements made about Iran by the Bush White House are false.

Care to provide unbiased sources to your assertions anyway Europeans think otherwise
Too late to halt Iran's N-bomb, EU is told

[The Thinker]

Lets not forget how Israel started bombing Lebanon over a captive Israeli soldier that Hezobolah captured, all it takes is another capture or down and the fuse is lite for WWIII. The fact that Bush has 21,000 troops heading for Iraq is a hidden agenda I believe focused on Iran.

[GHook93]

Quote by: The Thinker Lets not forget how Israel started bombing Lebanon over a captive Israeli soldier that Hezobolah captured, all it takes is another capture or down and the fuse is lite for WWIII. The fact that Bush has 21,000 troops heading for Iraq is a hidden agenda I believe focused on Iran.

Another thread and another topic. It has been through discussed. I suggest you go find it, before you derail this thread.

Note: I hope you live up to the user name you picked, because this post surely doesn't protray you will.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: GHook93 You're delusional. The only way Iran could wipe-out Israel is with a nuke (or the nuke that they are attempting to create). Israel military strenght is 2nd to none in the Middle East. The only military advantage that Iran would have is the with the over-welming head-count. The whole international community is condeming Iran and believes that Iran is seeking a nuke. Shit even countries like Russia and China are against them on this issue.

Well, Russia and China already have nukes, so those who live in glass houses should not toss rocks. Iran has a number of missles that could reach Israel at short notice and the main cities of Israel are not all that large, the impact could be great. Or course Bush might want that because we have vowed to defend Isreal and we would be on stand-by to war with Iran with that expectation in mind.

Do not get me wrong, I am not pro-Iran nor pro-Bush nor pro-Isreal when it comes to nuclear intimadation or unwarrented wars. I am surprised however that you could be fooled twice by what Bush has said about Iran being he already fooled you once with his lies about Irag. Iran is building nuclear electric plants just like most of the other major nations in the world have done, and recent inspections in Iran have confirmed that as a fact. And officals in Iran have so stated that this is the case. If you want everyone to stop with the nuclear stuff then present a good example by doing it first here in the USA. If not - we are being hypocritical. Iran is ready to sit down at the peace tables with the rest of those countries and the USA, to set up a monitoring system from a 3rd party about thier nuclear development programs, but George Whatever Bush said "No". Most nations are not for nuclear technology being adopted and expanded upon by anyone at all, that is a wise choice, and I would agree with that we all need to reduce that momentum of nuclear technology. None the less I do not think that killing thousands of innocent people, children and animals included, is the way to go about reasoning with nations about the hazards of nuclear technology.
And when it comes to Bush and the people who run the government of Israel, why should we encourge such mad men to do anything distructive. Why encourage such insanity?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: notworthabean 1) the inspectison were far from through 2) why are they so secreitive about thier nuclear project then 3) most of the muslim nations int he region perceive iran as a major threat to their stability, iran is shi'ite the rest are sunni. 4) if iran could knock israel out now, I'm sure they woudl try, as it is they would not be able to 5) I've heard the claim about the farsi before, they all talk about destroy israel in some sense or another, its most defiently a threat to volicne 6) it is illogical for a country of israels size to let a country irans size prepare for war so they can have a "fair fight" just like it would be for kids in their size situation figthing.

The inspection was complete and Iran made no secret of their intent to establish a nuclear program, and made a big announcment about it.

Iran had no reason to make a first strike on Israel before now and it was not because they could not do so. Reagan sold a lot of missles to Iran in trade for some hostages - and they have gained other weapons form elsewhere, and they have a airforce and navy.

In the past Iran has not been at all friendly towards the USA and they were some of the first terrorists to take hostages to make demands. But they now have a new government run by different leaders. And so I would agree we need to keep a close eye on them but also we should make all attempts to resolve the problems that they are concerned about. President Bush only wants to distroy them and he would not agree to any alternative means of attaining normalized relations with Iran.

So Israel should not allow other developing nations their right to create a better military advantage? Who died a left Israel with the authority to police the world?

[Technosoul]

Quote by: shrike Of course it is maybe in not doing in directly but via proxy.Its supplying it weapons training it fighters send Iran experts and doing everything it can to wage war against Israel Care to provide unbiased sources to your assertions anyway Europeans think otherwise Too late to halt Iran's N-bomb, EU is told

Iran has earmarked large sums of money for the Palistains which is called "humanitary aid". For their reconstruction and medical needs.
As far as suppling them with weapons that is pure speculation.

Iran has no "proxy" doing an attack for them. The Palistine (however you spell it) leaders would fight for their rights even if Iran did not exsist. They are helping the Palistine people just like we give aid to Israel. That aid started a long time ago because of what happened to the Jewish people in Germany, and not because we wanted them as a "proxy" back then. In my opinon your persepctive about the activities happening in the middle east have been confused by the Bush brainwashers of America. Unless you are otherwise so employed as part of that attempted effort by the Bush White House.

[notworthabean]

The inspection was complete and Iran made no secret of their intent to establish a nuclear program, and made a big announcment about it.

I believe we are negations with them now to allow the IEA more access to Iranian facilities...so no its not

Iran had no reason to make a first strike on Israel before now and it was not because they could not do so. Reagan sold a lot of missles to Iran in trade for some hostages - and they have gained other weapons form elsewhere, and they have a airforce and navy.

yes they have an air force and navy, a navy who’s only out going seas require passing by the US fleet (Persian gulf) or through the Bosporus (and an american ally) and an air force which has to fly over at least one Sunni controlled country, not to mention an American controlled country to get to Israel, who has one of the top 5 air forces in the world. so no they couldn't do it, at least not without us approval, and even their it would be a struggle

In the past Iran has not been at all friendly towards the USA and they were some of the first terrorists to take hostages to make demands. But they now have a new government run by different leaders. And so I would agree we need to keep a close eye on them but also we should make all attempts to resolve the problems that they are concerned about. President Bush only wants to distroy them and he would not agree to any alternative means of attaining normalized relations with Iran.

the present president of Iran was one of the hostage takers, the mullahs follow the same school of thought, they fund and arm Hezbollah and the shi'ite terrorist in Iraq.

So Israel should not allow other developing nations their right to create a better military advantage? Who died a left Israel with the authority to police the world?

It has nothing to do with Israel policing the world, only with being defensive. Iran wants to wipe the out. a nuke is the means to which they could do this, so Israel does not want them to have that.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: notworthabean I believe we are negations with them now to allow the IEA more access to Iranian facilities...so no its not yes they have an air force and navy, a navy who’s only out going seas require passing by the US fleet (Persian gulf) or through the Bosporus (and an american ally) and an air force which has to fly over at least one Sunni controlled country, not to mention an American controlled country to get to Israel, who has one of the top 5 air forces in the world. so no they couldn't do it, at least not without us approval, and even their it would be a struggle the present president of Iran was one of the hostage takers, the mullahs follow the same school of thought, they fund and arm Hezbollah and the shi'ite terrorist in Iraq. It has nothing to do with Israel policing the world, only with being defensive. Iran wants to wipe the out. a nuke is the means to which they could do this, so Israel does not want them to have that.

That is what Bush said about the UN inspectors who visited Irag, they need more access to those "secret places". More BS. You just got fooled twice by the same deceaver.

Great news, if Iran cannot fly over those places to attack Israel (and so forth) then they could not fly a bomber to drop a nuke for the same reasons. And so according to your words Isreal has nothing to fear, and no reason to do a first stike. Thanks for giving us more proof that Iran cannot nuke Israel and that such a Isreal led attack is unwarrented.

The religion in Irag is not a terrorest group nor is the Hezabollah, they are not part of the A-Q network that is conducting a holy war tageting the USA. You are mentioning groups that are involved in local civil wars and the only reason one of them is effecting us is because we are still in Iraq. Hesabollah is no different the the government of Israel, they terrorize each other - but that is not the business of the USA nor does it threaten our homeland security. If Isreal makes a determination to start a war with Iran then Congress should have laws in effect to prevent President Bush and the USA military from getting involved in the war, if Israel looses then too bad for them. We need to pass a law that if Israel conducts a first stike war on another country that we will not defend them under such circumstances. Congress needs to wake up and take action to do so ASAP. I personally do not give a hoot if Isreal and Iran duke it out as long as it does not involve the USA military in anyway (even with data or technical support). Congress needs to restrain Bush and his "end of the world" biblical war belief system. He has been influenced too much by the Book of Revelations or whatever. Jesus is not going to come running down here from heaven just because Bush makes Israel "a thron in the side of every nation". Lets get realistic folks.

Isreal is trying to police the Muslem world by telling Iran they cannot pursue a nuclear enrichment program for peaceful purposes. Defense established on speculation and gossip is how we wrongly got involved in the war on Iraq.
You would think they would learn by our misstakes not to do it their self, but no, they are as nutty as our right wing think tanks. ( if you can even call that "thinking"?). You can fool some of the people some of the time but not me. A defense is a system you set up to protect your country if and when someone attempts to attack you from the outside. Israel is just too paranoid and that is what has cused them to have those illusions that Iran wants to nuke them at some later date and so they must eliminate that future threat if it ever became a reality. I call that pure insanity. To go to war because you have some gossip that is not confirmed in order to defend your self is utter nonsense. A nuclear plant the provides much needed electric power for the people of Iran is not a threat to anyone, it is not a weapon of mass distruction. Our best option is to is offer Iran data so they can build a plant that is safe to operate, to insure less chance of a nuclear accident happening, otherwise allow the 3rd party inspectors to do their thing without bugging in with unconfirmed claims they are not doing a good enough job.

Advocate peaceful solutions that are fair to all sides instead of advocating wars that can only bring suffering to countless numbers for innocent by-standers. Give peace a chance.

[shrike]

Quote by: Technosoul Iran has earmarked large sums of money for the Palistains which is called "humanitary aid". For their reconstruction and medical needs. As far as suppling them with weapons that is pure speculation. Iran has no "proxy" doing an attack for them. The Palistine (however you spell it) leaders would fight for their rights even if Iran did not exsist. They are helping the Palistine people just like we give aid to Israel. That aid started a long time ago because of what happened to the Jewish people in Germany, and not because we wanted them as a "proxy" back then. In my opinon your persepctive about the activities happening in the middle east have been confused by the Bush brainwashers of America. Unless you are otherwise so employed as part of that attempted effort by the Bush White House.

Who talked about Palestinians?Although lately some Iranian weapon experts were arrested.But they problem that Palestinians are Sunni so the cooperation is pretty limited IMO.
I was talked about Hezbollah of course Its common knowledge that Iran use Hezbollah as a proxy against Israel..
For example
Iranian official admits Tehran supplied missiles to Hezbollah - Haaretz - Israel News

[RickSp]

Iran provides missles to Hezbollah and the US provides cluster bombs among other weaponry to Israel. Both sets of weapons have been used illegally against civilians.

So far it appears that the justification for any future attack by Israel on Iran is that :

1. Iran has made threats against Israel and:
2. Iran may at some future date have nuclear weapons.

If this is a proper justification, which I would argue that it is not, it works better as against Israel than Iran.

1. Israel has made threats against Iran and:
2. Israel indeed does have nuclear weapons, which Iran does not.

Whichever country, whether Israel or Iran, makes first use of a nuclear weapon will be effectively committing suicide.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: RickSp And Iran did what, exactly? Say nasty things about Israel?

Yes. Like, "Israel must cease to exist as a nation",

"The president of Iran again lashed out at Israel on Friday and said it was "heading toward annihilation," just days after Tehran raised fears about its nuclear activities by saying it successfully enriched uranium for the first time.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated. He also appeared to again question whether the Holocaust really happened."

On Friday, he repeated his previous line on the Holocaust, saying: "If such a disaster is true, why should the people of this region pay the price? Why does the Palestinian nation have to be suppressed and have its land occupied?"

The land of Palestine, he said, referring to the British mandated territory that includes all of Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, "will be freed soon."

He did not say how this would be achieved, but insisted to the audience of at least 900 people: "Believe that Palestine will be freed soon."

"The existence of this (Israeli) regime is a permanent threat" to the Middle East, he added. "Its existence has harmed the dignity of Islamic nations."

"Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Thursday the solution to the Middle East crisis is to destroy Israel"

"Speaking at a seminar entitled “World without Zionism”, Ahmadinejad said that Israel was the product of an ideological war between the “Arrogant World Order” and the “Islamic rule”, adding that the Jewish state had to be wiped off the face of the earth."

But HEY! He's not George Bush and he hates America. So, to some, he's not that bad

[RickSp]

Do you have a point Ape or do you just enjoy rehashing the news?

Let's see:

Iran threatens Israel.

Iran has no nukes. The CIA says that just maybe they might build one in ten years. Iran has a small air force and is not supported by a rich super power. The dumb-ass politician in Iran who makes the threats does not, by the way, control the Iranian military.

Israel threatens Iran.

Israel is supported by a rich super-power and yes, Israel has both nukes and an airforce capable of delivering them.

Which of these two is more dangerous?

[Gods_Mercenary]

oooooh oooooooooooooh I know!

Anyway, the CIA is a hell of a lot more trustworthy than the rest of the executive branch these days, it would seem.

[notworthabean]

1) Israel may have the ability to deliver nukes, but they've had that for 30 years...and they haven't so Israel =safer then iran

2) Israels interast in "policiing the arab nations" is due to its concenr for itis safety, and as for that being "Good" or "bad"for the US, i'd say supporting your allies is a high on your interast. basicly its good to look like a loyal ally, esp post 'nam

3) are you drunk (I am atm) what are you babbling about religion and AQ?I never mentieond AQ.

[RickSp]

We were lied into a war which is a bloody fiasco, all based on threats of WMD. And now it is happening again, with the same nonsensical claims repeated almost verbatim. I guess some people never learn.

The only real difference is that the country ends in an "n" not an "q" and that Iran is many times more capable of defending itself than Iraq. The other huge difference is that the Iraq war has tied down and weakened our military substantially. Whether started by Israel or our own mad king, a war with Iraq would be a disaster.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: RickSp We were lied into a war which is a bloody fiasco, all based on threats of WMD. And now it is happening again, with the same nonsensical claims repeated almost verbatim. I guess some people never learn.

I don't think you can make that cliam with a clear conscience. Clearly they were able to memorize all of those lame Talking Points we have been hearing since Bush took office.


The problem is that people are compelled to respond to the same tired old rhetoric for fear that it may become the "accepted" truth.


Clearly they have been briefed for their mission, or they just let the pundits form thier opinion for them, and regurgitate them on command.


They are equally disturbing in my view.

[GHook93]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I don't think you can make that cliam with a clear conscience. Clearly they were able to memorize all of those lame Talking Points we have been hearing since Bush took office. The problem is that people are compelled to respond to the same tired old rhetoric for fear that it may become the "accepted" truth. Clearly they have been briefed for their mission, or they just let the pundits form thier opinion for them, and regurgitate them on command. They are equally disturbing in my view.

Yes, but the difference is there is more proof. This time even our not-real-allies are agreeing with us (Russia and China).

[RickSp]

Quote by: GHook93 Yes, but the difference is there is more proof. This time even our not-real-allies are agreeing with us (Russia and China).

LOL. Are you really that gullible? Anyone offered to sell you a bridge recently?

Not even Bush's own generals support him on attacking Iran. That is one reason why using Israel as a proxy must have a certain appeal. Any action by Israel would inevitably pull the US in the war.

US generals ‘will quit’ if Bush orders Iran attack

SOME of America’s most senior military commanders are prepared to resign if the White House orders a military strike against Iran, according to highly placed defence and intelligence sources. Tension in the Gulf region has raised fears that an attack on Iran is becoming increasingly likely before President George Bush leaves office. The Sunday Times has learnt that up to five generals and admirals are willing to resign rather than approve what they consider would be a reckless attack. “There are four or five generals and admirals we know of who would resign if Bush ordered an attack on Iran,” a source with close ties to British intelligence said. “There is simply no stomach for it in the Pentagon, and a lot of people question whether such an attack would be effective or even possible.” A British defence source confirmed that there were deep misgivings inside the Pentagon about a military strike. “All the generals are perfectly clear that they don’t have the military capacity to take Iran on in any meaningful fashion. Nobody wants to do it and it would be a matter of conscience for them.