Either NATO countries send more Troops, or Canada withdrawals from Afghanistan:

[Praxius]

The ChronicleHerald.ca

Canada should consider withdrawing from Afghanistan unless its NATO allies deliver more troops to the international mission, a Senate panel recommended Monday. ..... The all-party panel also cast the conflict as a major test for NATO in the post-Cold War era — and suggested Canada should consider a pullout if other NATO countries refuse to pitch in. "We expect the allies to step up," said Senator Colin Kenny, the committee chair. "They must know that if they’re not going to step up, we’re going to take another look at the situation. It’s an alliance and everyone is expected to be shoulder-to-shoulder on this." "I would say that if we’ve seen no support from our allies, all the options are on the table."

In other News:

CTV.ca | NATO chief says more troops needed in Afghanistan

Hours earlier, a Senate committee in Canada said the government should a consider withdrawing from Afghanistan unless NATO allies deliver additional troops. Canada's 2,500 troops play a key role in the front-line southern provinces and have suffered relatively high casualties. Craddock said any decision to pull them out would create a "terrible situation.'' ....... Politicians in Canada, Britain, the United States and other countries with troops in the volatile south have been irked by the reluctance of some European allies to commit extra forces to the 35,500-strong NATO force, and in particular to allow their troops to be deployed to the Taliban's heartland in the south and east.

I figured it would come to this eventually. I mean, they've been asking for assistance from the other allies since the friggin war began and yet nothing..... so in the end it's not NATO getting shot at.... it's Canadian, British and US troops.

In both reports they also speak of it taking decades, if not, generations to get Afghanistan where everybody hoped it will be in the end.....

also, 90% of all Canadian funds being sent to Afghanistan are being skimmed off from Afghan officials so the money is not making it to the people.

Chances are this will mark the end of NATO and one big fat failure...... the shitty thing is the Canadian Troops got a lot of respect in Afghanistan by the people, and are making a difference, but the lack of support from others who should be supporting are underminning their efforts and in the end it'll all just be a waste.

[Milton Bradley]

Good for Canada, and the Canadian people.


Too bad you got suckered into believing the initial lies in the first place.


As to your contention that the Canaian troops there are actually getting respect, and doing well, I would have to ask "well" in what manor, and by whos definition?


But then my goals are not that of my governments.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Milton Bradley As to your contention that the Canaian troops there are actually getting respect, and doing well, I would have to ask "well" in what manor, and by whos definition?

Mainly from troops being interviewed and village elders who've given their trust to many of the troops. They speak of frustration of the slow reconstruction (Which is due to the money getting skimmed from the government.) and other problems, but are generally not directed towards Canadian troops.

Although our troops have had a lot of casualties in comparison to the % of canadian troops based in Afghanistan, we've generally have had a better fight put to the enemy and they lossed many more then we have.

Our Lepord tanks and LAV's we use are very difficult for the Taliban to do any damage to with RPGs and most of our troops inside these vehicles tend to get away from attacks with very little injury, if any.

We have led pretty much every major offensive (Not lead in paticular, but our forces were the brunt of the missions and took the frontlines.) which each mission was completed successfully to their end goals. (Operation Medusa and Operation Baaz Tuska)

Bottom line, Canadian troops have been doing the majority of fighting (With the exception of US air support) and quite honestly, we've put in more then our share in keeping this mission going. All NATO leaders and commanders have complimented Canada for "Going Above and Beyond" what they were called for and extending our mission with NATO for an extra two years (I think) and then added our tanks to the forces, we're continually going above and beyond.

When our troops are interviewed and asked why they are there and why they stay, they reply mainly with comments about how little the people have and they want to give back to them. The people of Afghanistan are exausted from war with the Soviets, the Taliban, the US and now NATO and the Taliban.

Village elders have commented that they hate the Taliban, but they're the only organization that gave them some kind of balanced order (so to speak) and now they are glad to have NATO troops on their side and pushing out the oppression of the Taliban, but they feel a lot more still needs to be done before they can feel actually safe and start their lives over again.

The fact of the matter is.... Canadian troops are basically the foundation for NATO.... we're the primary reason why the mission has been as successful as it has been.... and yet, the other NATO countries are still nit picking about sending more of their own troops to help.

Canadian troops were also interviewed and were asked about assistance from other allied.... and many in the front lines have responded with the fact that they haven't seen another allied uniform besides their own in months.

We're holding the lines and keeping the Taliban in check very well.... but we're also hitting our fatigue and limit of funding and troop rotations and unless other allies get their asses together and send in help, our troops are not only going to be worn out, but more casualties will ensue and eventually we will have no other choice but to withdraw.

Additional news and information can be found here:

CTV.ca | CTV News, Shows and Sports - Canadian Television
General listing of Canadian/Afghan Military News.

Selected Stories of Interest:
CTV.ca | Outside the wire

CTV.ca | Young reservist describes training for Afghan misson

CTV.ca | Canadian convoy travels through 'Ambush Alley'

Added:

Better yet.... here's a timeline link:

CTV.ca | Afghanistan: A timeline of Canadian involvement post-9/11

[GHook93]

Quote by: Milton Bradley . Too bad you got suckered into believing the initial lies in the first place.

Lost all credibility right there. Ignoring reality is a poor choice my friend.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: GHook93 Lost all credibility right there. Ignoring reality is a poor choice my friend.

Hehehe, my "reality" is not defined by the Bush administration, or it's broader "War on Terror", but thanks for the drive by, and putting all that effort into justifying your position.


( Truly, there is no need to attempt to justify this war to me, because that would be Mission Impossible. )

[Zeebadee]

An interesting, though dated piece on Canada in Afghanistan:

ZNet |Afghanistan | Detestable Murderers and Scumbags

[Praxius]

I have more support for the war in Afghanistan then what's going on in Iraq. There were reasons for Afghanistan at the begining.

Now the situation has changed, and our troops are not there just to fight the Taliban and get redemption like the Bush Administration geared for..... we're there for the people who have nothing.... ask any Canadian soldier there and they will all say they want to help the villages and the people...... helping them means development and protection from the Taliban.

[Praxius]

Quote by: Zeebadee An interesting, though dated piece on Canada in Afghanistan: ZNet |Afghanistan | Detestable Murderers and Scumbags

Most of that is accurate. We joined the fight in Afghanistan because we were pointed as a target and so we felt we needed to step in. Over the years now, times have changed and our direction is different. The scum bag remarks was primarily to charge the new forces coming in.... to get them hyped up and hate their enemy.... this is done by every military at the start of a war.

While there may seem to be a large space between Graham’s “helping” approach and Hillier/Leslie’s “kill people” approach, Canada’s real foreign policy path is actually rather narrow: it involves supporting and legitimizing US foreign policy, whether through “failed state” rhetoric, military support, or profitable arms manufacturing. Canada’s Afghan mission fits the bill on all counts.

According to Graham, Canada then “spearheaded the effort to have NATO take over the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Kabul” from the United Nations. Today ISAF has 8,000 troops from 35 countries, with Canada contributing some 2,600 troops. In August 2005, Canada sent another 250 troops to Kandahar, along with officials from the Canadian International Development Agency, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and Foreign Affairs. In February 2006, Canada will be adding a headquarters in Kandahar, with 350 troops commanding the international force and an addition 1,000 troops as a one-year task force. Given that Canada has roughly the same population as Afghanistan and very limited military resources, the Afghanistan deployment is a major foreign policy effort.

Actually reading further down, most of that information has changed. Our troops do not pass our POW's off to the US now, but instead to the Afghan Army and Police.

Some of that information is accurate, but there are a lot of twists of information to state a paticular US bias towards Canadian actions.

What a government's intentions are in a war and what the troops who are doing the brunt of the work intentions are, are two different perspectives.

In the last year+ things have been improving with development, interaction with the Afghan people, and their abilities to keep their country secure. It's on the up and up, but without additional support from other countries in NATO, it will all be for nothing and a waste of time and money.

If we don't get the additional support we require, then we will have to pull out..... if we pull out, NATO fails.... if NATO fails, then Afghan fails.... the Taliban comes back, destroys the government, oppresses the people even more so, and they become even stronger with their propaganda and influence if this fails.

The balance of Afghanistan isn't just based on NATO and what NATO does..... it's what we decide to do. If we pull out.... the mission fails.

[Nono]

Rest assured, Prax, Afghans make little distinction between Canadians and Americans or anybody else. We're all foreign devils and that's it.

It isn't "either NATO does this or that or else". It's too late.
I too supported the Afghan thing -- about five years ago. If it had been followed up properly instead of being dropped like yesterday's new toy, things could have turned out differently. Maybe.

As far as I can see nobody in Canada has the vaguest notion what they're supposed to be accomplishing there.

As for this or that Afghan telling CTV this or that, I'd think again.

And read George Macdonald Fraser's Flashman.