Klan growing, fed by anti-immigrant feelings, report says

[grandpa]

Quote by: ghost_stalker Although i do disagree with hate groups. I also think that illegal immigration needs to be stopped, immediately. They come against our laws and wishes, have no loyalty to the us, will commit crimes against our people, and take benefits from our system, while hurting our economy by sending the money they make here back to their native country. They should not be given any lienaincy to bypass our immigration policies, and if they expect to live in this country and benefit from our sources of labor, and our public systems they should have to go through the same process any other legal immigrant should go through, if they commit a crime here they should be deported, if mexico doesn't incarcerate thier criminals that come to the us illegally and commit crimes then the us should put economical pressure on mexico. We need a system to keep the illegals out of our country (whether they have already snuck past the border or not), to make sure that they cannot benefit from this country if they do come illegally, and to have a system if an illegal alien commits a crime that he should be deported and his home country for punishment.

"Although I disagree with hate groups" is a pretty interesting thing to start with here.

But you may be onto something. Maybe our government, which has been dropping bombs and contributing to terror throughout the world, ought to protect us good, "legally recognizable" citizens from those terrible people coming in from Mexico who we all know are bound to commit an untold of amount of crimes.

But seriously, what we need is a society that declares nobody "illegal." Any institution contributing to this outlandish label simply needs to be rejected, as it is placing abstract entities over the needs of actual humans and not protecting anyone from the problems it causes.

It is not a crime to merely stand on a certain large area of land. That is simply to exist.

Grandpa h.

[dilligras]

"Jane, you ignorant slut."

I'm just sitting here wondering when exactly it was that someone who crossed our sovereign borders illegally became known as "immigrants"??!!??

That is simply and very obviously a semantical perversion of truth designed to support criminal behavior under the guise of "tolerance".

Perhaps if some of you bleeding hearts were to move to El Paso or Laredo YOU would get a first-hand opportunity to be murdered by trained Mexican troops, working for the drug kingpin there.

Maybe YOU could find five charred and tortured bodies in the ditch in front of your property.

Maybe YOU could have the pristine wilderness and wildlife that enticed you to the area turned into a vast toilet (when they gotta go, they gotta go) that will not support any critter that does not eat feces or discarded plastic water bottles.

Maybe YOU could have 50 or 60 of your states hospitals go bankrupt and close, meaning that you now have NO emergency services within 50 miles of your hometown.




Maybe.



But, until you come to your senses, I will be here, trying to take back America, one dumbass at a time.



As you were.:rolleyes:

[dilligras]

Oh yeah.......anyone who thinks the Southern Poverty Law Center is a credible organization, instead of the bastard child of a man who stole the DNC's mailing list and started up by soliciting donations from its members........you're a dumbass too.


.

[grandpa]

What exactly are you trying to "take back America" from?

Also, what is your point before that statement?

Grandpa h.

[The Dunedan]

I was wondering when someone was going to remember that this is Morris "Sleaze" Dees we're talking about here. I'll need to see a -lot- of corroborating, independant evidence before I'll trust -anything- the SPLC or its' water-carriers have to say. Dees has a long history of inflating "Hate Group" numbers, usually by classifying anyone/thing/organization remotely critical of himself, the Gov't in general, or the State Of Israel as a "hate group" and then using these ginned-up figures to attract donations and get airtime.

[GHook93]

Quote by: ghost_stalker Although i do disagree with hate groups. I also think that illegal immigration needs to be stopped, immediately. They come against our laws and wishes, have no loyalty to the us, will commit crimes against our people, and take benefits from our system, while hurting our economy by sending the money they make here back to their native country. They should not be given any lienaincy to bypass our immigration policies, and if they expect to live in this country and benefit from our sources of labor, and our public systems they should have to go through the same process any other legal immigrant should go through, if they commit a crime here they should be deported, if mexico doesn't incarcerate thier criminals that come to the us illegally and commit crimes then the us should put economical pressure on mexico. We need a system to keep the illegals out of our country (whether they have already snuck past the border or not), to make sure that they cannot benefit from this country if they do come illegally, and to have a system if an illegal alien commits a crime that he should be deported and his home country for punishment.

Very true, you don't have to subscribe to white supremacy to believe that illegal immigration is a problem.

[GHook93]

Quote by: dilligras "Jane, you ignorant slut." I'm just sitting here wondering when exactly it was that someone who crossed our sovereign borders illegally became known as "immigrants"??!!?? That is simply and very obviously a semantical perversion of truth designed to support criminal behavior under the guise of "tolerance". Perhaps if some of you bleeding hearts were to move to El Paso or Laredo YOU would get a first-hand opportunity to be murdered by trained Mexican troops, working for the drug kingpin there. Maybe YOU could find five charred and tortured bodies in the ditch in front of your property. Maybe YOU could have the pristine wilderness and wildlife that enticed you to the area turned into a vast toilet (when they gotta go, they gotta go) that will not support any critter that does not eat feces or discarded plastic water bottles. Maybe YOU could have 50 or 60 of your states hospitals go bankrupt and close, meaning that you now have NO emergency services within 50 miles of your hometown. Maybe. But, until you come to your senses, I will be here, trying to take back America, one dumbass at a time. As you were.:rolleyes:

Watch now some ultra-liberal like grandpa, will attack you for being a racist redneck. That is their defense.

[GHook93]

This guy thinks so, that is why he and several other African-Americans join the minutemen.

Prediction: First think the liberals on the board will do is attack it because fox news and Hannity cover this story.

Think out of the box Grandpa!

Is Illegal Immigration as Dangerous for African-Americans as Slavery Was? Thursday, April 27, 2006 This is a partial transcript from "Hannity & Colmes," April 26, 2006, that has been edited for clarity. ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST: Critics of the Minutemen Civil Defense Corps have often labeled their efforts to secure the U.S. border with Mexico as discriminatory against people of color. But now several African-Americans activists are joining the Minutemen's efforts. Joining us now is one of those leaders, homeless advocate Ted Hayes. Ted, thank you for being with us. I know you speak up for the downtrodden, the poor and those who come and take jobs that could go to Americans. Isn't the issue — let's go after the employers? Let's go after those who are paying sub-minimum wage to people who are here undocumented and give those jobs to Americans and force the employers to pay what they should pay? TED HAYES, HOMELESS ADVOCATE: Absolutely right, and I've been saying that all along, that these employers are essentially slavers, and they're trying to reestablish slavery in this country. That's why I say that I support and am a member of the Minutemen. And I'm saying to black America this is our issue. We were slaves at one time in this country and we cannot allow for slavery to be reestablished. We can't allow our campaneros... . COLMES: Minutemen — that's not what the Minutemen's focus is. The Minutemen's focus, of course, is watching the border. Now they're talking about building a fence, which I think is unworkable. And plus, you need billions of dollars to build it and billions of dollars to watch it and personnel to watch it. But the employers who are really hurting the working poor, that's where I would focus. And isn't that something we can agree on? HAYES: Absolutely. And the Minutemen — the Minutemen feel the same way. I know Jim Gilchrest and Chris Simcox and all the fellows, Martin Stewart (ph), who were the first black Minutemen on the board, these are our sentiments. And see, the Minutemen, remember, they're only a year old, and they're really waking people up. And they're still developing their ideas and their philosophy. They're really giving us this idea that civil rights is also the issue, because these illegal people are demanding civil rights. These are the things that we black people gave our lives for, and it's wrong for them to come into this country and claim our civil rights. COLMES: That may be true. What do you do with the people, though — what do you do with the people already in the country, something neither party wants to deal with? Because you can't ignore, even the president said the other day it's impractical to say we're going to get rid of 11 million people and deport them. I agree with the president on that. HAYES: That's not — that's not true. They got here. They can leave here. COLMES: How are you going to get them to leave? HAYES: Well, I just sent a letter to the pope, OK, Pope Benedict XVI. And I said to him, "Sir, these are good Roman Catholic Christians." Because this is not an issue of walls, or soldiers or legislation. SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Hey, Ted. HAYES: It's a moral issue. It's a moral issue, and these people need to know that they are stealing. They're trespassing. And stop it, because you're good Roman Catholic Christians. Take your children and go home. HANNITY: You — welcome back to the program, my friend. Glad you're here. HAYES: Thank you, Sean. Thank you. HANNITY: You're under fire for saying the biggest threat to blacks in America since slavery is illegal immigration. A lot of people don't like the fact that you made that analogy. How do you... HAYES: Absolutely. Because it's true. HANNITY: I've known you a long time. You never — you never shy away from a fight or a controversy. What did you mean by that for maybe somebody who didn't understand what you meant? HAYES: If this illegal immigration process continues, it is going to completely destroy us. We are losing our homes, our lands, our houses, our employment. HANNITY: But is it wrong to compare it to slavery, — the criticism? HAYES: What do you mean is it wrong to compare it to slavery? HANNITY: You use the words "biggest threat to blacks in America since slavery" and people are offended that you said that. HAYES: Yes, yes. Yes, because it's destroying us. We're dying as a people, and they're doing it in the name of our civil rights. They're invoking the name of Martin Luther King. They got nothing to do with that. HANNITY: In other words, you're saying the moral comparison is unfair? HAYES: Yes, it is. They cannot be claiming what they're going through is the same as slavery. We are immigrants, not by choice. We came here against our will. We came in here backward. And we've been struggling from slavery through Jim Crowe and 40 years of social welfare. It's destroyed our people. HANNITY: You also said that — you go on to say that the people here, that blacks refuse to accept slave wages that the illegal immigrants are accepting. Is that your major, then, thrust, and major point here? Is that what you're saying? HAYES: That's one of them, Sir. HANNITY: Explain that, thought, because some people — I don't think people understood it. HAYES: We lost over 600,000 young white men and thousands of young black men in this country in the Civil War to end this issue of people having free labor over other human beings. And we, as black people, we have a moral duty and responsibility to not reenter into slavery. Otherwise we betray our ancestors, those who died. COLMES: All right. HAYES: And we cannot our campaneros to be turned into slavery in this country. If they want to be slaves, let them be slaves in another country, but not in the United States of America. COLMES: We're just out of time, Ted. Thank you

FOXNews.com - Is Illegal Immigration as Dangerous for African-Americans as Slavery Was? - Sean Hannity | Alan Colmes | Hannity & Colmes

[dilligras]

Quote by: GHook93 Watch now some ultra-liberal like grandpa, will attack you for being a racist redneck. That is their defense.

That's OK, mon ami........I AM a racist redneck....I hate those damned hobbits.

Plus, one must always consider the context and the source when evaluating criticism for serious consideration of alterations in one's attitude or beliefs, n'est pas?

You see, truth be known, there are very few societies among our species who do not indulge a racist component, as it is a natural thing for the mind to make unconscious comparisons, to discern possibly threatening variations of interaction.

In other words one must be aware of one's own natural, unconscious tendency toward reflexive survival-motivated reactions before one may address them appropriately.

Why do you think I can feel comfortable with this persona I have manufactured with my nickname, especially given that I reside in the hated South?

I laugh at their ignorance, and get on with my work.

I laugh at my own ignorance on occasion, as well, so no one need feel "special".



As you were.

[GHook93]

Quote by: dilligras That's OK, mon ami........I AM a racist redneck....I hate those damned hobbits. Plus, one must always consider the context and the source when evaluating criticism for serious consideration of alterations in one's attitude or beliefs, n'est pas? You see, truth be known, there are very few societies among our species who do not indulge a racist component, as it is a natural thing for the mind to make unconscious comparisons, to discern possibly threatening variations of interaction. In other words one must be aware of one's own natural, unconscious tendency toward reflexive survival-motivated reactions before one may address them appropriately. Why do you think I can feel comfortable with this persona I have manufactured with my nickname, especially given that I reside in the hated South?

Man I judged you poorly! There is a difference between anti-illegal immigration and hating the Mexican people. Hating the people instead of the system is ignorance (you can be against the War, but for the troops). No wonder you were drawn to a KKK post.

Many Mexicans are hard works that mean no harm. In fact they add a lot to this country. I would say many of them are more American than you and others like. The whole premise of America is to be a melting pot (however, you still have to make sure it doesn't boil over).

[dilligras]

Hhhmmmm....I'm now trying to figure out where it was that I said I hated Mexicans???

[GHook93]

Quote by: dilligras Hhhmmmm....I'm now trying to figure out where it was that I said I hated Mexicans???

Did I quote you wrong?

That's OK, mon ami........I AM a racist redneck....I hate those damned hobbits.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 Watch now some ultra-liberal like grandpa, will attack you for being a racist redneck. That is their defense.

If by thinking outside of the box you mean embrace complete nonsense, then sure. The hypothesis that "illegals" are as bad to blacks as slavery doesn't withstand a moment's scrutiny.
And that's clear because this guy you're qutoing doesn't ellaborate on a single point. He simply says "they're killing us" or some such thing. It's a nonsense quote from a nonsense show on a nonsense network.

Need I remind all of you that illegal immigrants actually have less political and economic power than any one of us in this forum?

Grandpa h.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: grandpa Need I remind all of you that illegal immigrants actually have less political and economic power than any one of us in this forum? Grandpa h.

I believe that that's exactly one of the points the guy quoted was trying to make. Like the slaves, illegal immigrants are being exploited.

[grandpa]

Quote by: GHook93 Many Mexicans are hard works that mean no harm. In fact they add a lot to this country. I would say many of them are more American than you and others like. The whole premise of America is to be a melting pot (however, you still have to make sure it doesn't boil over).

Racist issues aside, what gives you the right to say someone can or cannot exist on a huge expanse of land? What makes you so special?

And your talk about a "melting pot" doesn't really qualify as an argument, either. Especially when the melting pot historically meant cheap, exploitable labor.

Grandpa h.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Zeebadee I believe that that's exactly one of the points the guy quoted was trying to make. Like the slaves, illegal immigrants are being exploited.

Classifying them illegal and deporting them does nothing to prevent their exploitation. It makes for growth of state power and xenophobia, though.

In fact, deporting immigrants will lead to scenarios not entirely unlike what occurred during the fugitive slave era, where people escaping harsh conditions were often sought after and returned by force.
Thos who disobeyed the laws were typically fined and/or imprisoned.
In colonial days such laws applied also regarding white indentured servants and to Native American slaves.

There are some differences--different era, different labels, probably different penalties. But the process of rouding up pieces of property and returning them to their "rightful owners" isn't entirely different. In this case, the rightful owners would be the Mexican government (or whoever might own them under some immigrant worker program).

I should also add that deporting them actually solves nothing economically. It's an added cost. From a solely financial perspective, rounding up strays (who number in the millions) would undoubtedly cost at least millions (probably the costs would actually be in the billions).

Grandpa h.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: grandpa Classifying them illegal and deporting them does nothing to prevent their exploitation. It makes for growth of state power and xenophobia, though.

Hogwash. It makes for nothing more than enforcing the law.

Quote by: grandpa Thos who disobeyed the laws were typically fined and/or imprisoned.

And you have a problem with this?? Should we all be allowed to determine on our own which laws need to be obeyed and which don't??

Quote by: grandpa I should also add that deporting them actually solves nothing economically. It's an added cost. From a solely financial perspective, rounding up strays (who number in the millions) would undoubtedly cost at least millions (probably the costs would actually be in the billions). Grandpa h.

More garbage. If fines large enough to inhibit the hiring of illegals were levied on those that exploit them, the jobs they sneak into the country for wouldn't be available.

[dilligras]

Quote by: GHook93 Did I quote you wrong?

NO, you didn't, so I must assume that you think hobbits are Mexicans.

Never read Tolkien?

[grandpa]

Quote by: Zeebadee Hogwash. It makes for nothing more than enforcing the law.

How does enforcing laws against people not strengthen state power?

Quote by: Zeebadee And you have a problem with this?? Should we all be allowed to determine on our own which laws need to be obeyed and which don't??

Would you have agreed with fugitive slave laws?
People who have any common sense don't agree with something just because it's a law. Why? Because we know laws are made by humans with judgments that are fallible and potentially alterable.

Quote by: Zeebadee More garbage. If fines large enough to inhibit the hiring of illegals were levied on those that exploit them, the jobs they sneak into the country for wouldn't be available.

Fines aren't going to solve the problem. You're just going to end up criminalizing more people, which would still not get rid of costs. More jobs would probably "sneak out" of the country.

The real solution is to challenge the guest worker program, the INS and all hierarchical institutions which regard people merely as cheap, disposable labor. We don't do this by strengthening the state through fines, deportations and yes, xenophobia.

Grandpa h.

[dilligras]

Quote by: grandpa How does enforcing laws against people not strengthen state power?

PEOPLE!!?? Don't you mean illegal aliens?

I have noticed that the left seldom uses general labels like that unless they want to semantically ignore any specifics about real identities.

Why not just call them homo sapiens? You could even get more general than that, if you really want to obscure the issue.

They're not minerals or vegetables........so let's just call them animals......how's that for generalized?

Would you have agreed with fugitive slave laws?

Waal, if Zee was a Democrat back then, its quite likely that he would have........the Dems were the most racist party in the US for over 90 years, right up to the Vietnam War.

People who have any common sense don't agree with something just because it's a law.

True enough......but it isn't agreement that the law requires, it's obedience. You don't like a law? You have legal and election day recourse in this country......you don't get to independently and arbitrarily decide that all those duly elected REPRESENTATIVES may be vetoed by your mere disagreement, sir.

That you apparently think you do, somehow makes me question the wisdom of maturity you foist with your name.

Fines aren't going to solve the problem. You're just going to end up criminalizing more people, which would still not get rid of costs. More jobs would probably "sneak out" of the country.

Yes, they will, as part of a coordinated and equally applied enforcement of the LAW. Those profit-greedy businesses who cheat the American laborer and treat the Mexican nationals as modern slaves will use that same profit motive to get rid of their illegal, wage-cutting workers if they think their precious bottom line is about to be screwed by fines.

Who else would you "criminalize", but people who brazenly flaunt their illegal activity as thought it were a friggin' birthright?

Any jobs leaving the country would be more than compensated for by the jobs opened by ILLEGAL ALIENS leaving the country, n'est pas?

The real solution is to challenge the guest worker program, the INS and all hierarchical institutions which regard people merely as cheap, disposable labor. We don't do this by strengthening the state through fines, deportations and yes, xenophobia.

I would also challenge the guest worker program -- as it is little more than another lobbyist-perpetrated outrage upon my country's sovereign right to have secure borders and the absolute right to decide who gets to feed at our public trough.

I am sick and tired of pandering politicians soliciting the votes of thieving corporate "massas" and foreigners who never intend to owe my country any allegiance and are only here to get what they can take.

They should go home and start their own damn revolution if they don't like the corruption that has been as a jackboot on the neck of their hopes and aspirations, instead of taking the easy way out by stealing the birthrights of our citizenry, purchased with the honorable blood of our forefathers.


As you were.