Enron's Ken Lay dies

[gr8fuldaniel]

Ok, so just add that theory to the list.

As for me, I am suspicious. These snakes have shown their stripes.

[bishop]

nothing wrong with being suspicious, but at the same time, it's good to be reasonable and not grab at every far-fetched idea that may cross your path. you clearly meandered down the crooked path with the progression of your theory/theories.

bush could've just pardoned kenny boy at the end of his term.. (just another example of a more reasonable idea.)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Have you ever been in prison for 2 1/2 years? That would be an eternity.

There was so much at risk, for him to be negotiating with prosecutors. Behind closed doors? How does the regime KNOW they could trust him not to talk?

Ever hear about people getting hit by the mob, during the judicial process?

Happens all the time. It saves a lot of messy investigations.

We are talking about a lot of heads rolling if Lay talks.

Nothing "Far-fetched" about it. In fact its very common.

[bishop]

so, which version of your theory are you promoting now? the one where he was killed, or the one where he was sent on a club med vacation?

it's funny, since there are other individuals connected to other scandals currently under investigation... one would think abramoff could be a target of this fabled hit squad, but he's still alive and talking.. lots of heads will roll (and are rolling) from his confessions, but it's so totally amazing that he's been left alive..

something infinately more common than these hit squad antics are cases of overstressed people with heart conditions dying of heart attacks...

[brien]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Have you ever been in prison for 2 1/2 years? That would be an eternity. There was so much at risk, for him to be negotiating with prosecutors. Behind closed doors? How does the regime KNOW they could trust him not to talk? Ever hear about people getting hit by the mob, during the judicial process? Happens all the time. It saves a lot of messy investigations. We are talking about a lot of heads rolling if Lay talks. Nothing "Far-fetched" about it. In fact its very common.

Dan; You have quite an imagination and I mean that sincerely. Have you ever considered writing fiction? Can you write dialogue because if you can, I'll give you the name of my contact in the publishing world.

I understand your suspicions, and I myself don't trust the government, but I think the key word here is "reasonable."

[gr8fuldaniel]

Did you guys notice this line in the story I posted earlier?....

NY Times Still, lawyers in the civil lawsuits may proceed against Mr. Lay's remaining assets through motions inspired by admiralty law. Under that law, the government or a private party can take action against property (or the ship) without going after the owner (the captain), legal experts said.

Admiralty? WTF? The only reason for an admiralty hearing isnt because Ken Lays estate has anything at all to do with yachts (Although he had bought his wife a yacht AFTER the trial began). But because it will be heard by a JUDGE and not a jury. And Lay will be tried as a Dead Captain. Do you visualize Blackbeard like I just did? Another dead pirate. Except for no boat. And no beard.

Check it out:
Wiki >> Admiralty Law >> Jurisdiction

Jurisdiction Article III, Section 2 of the United States Constitution granted original jurisdiction to U.S. federal courts over admiralty and maritime matters. However, most admiralty cases in the United States can be brought in either federal or state court. The federal and state courts have concurrent jurisdiction over most admiralty and maritime claims pursuant to the terms of a federal statute known as the "Savings to Suitors" clause. Under the Savings to Suitors clause, certain remedies are exclusively limited to being filed in the federal courts. Those include suits seeking to arrest ships to enforce maritime mortgages and liens, petitions to limit a shipowner's liability to the value of a ship after a major accident, and actions seeking to partition ownership of a ship. However, the vast majority of maritime actions, such as suits for damage to cargo, injuries to seamen, collisions between vessels, wake damage, and maritime pollution cases may be brought in either state court or federal court. Unlike most civil actions in the United States, there is generally no right to trial by jury in admiralty cases, with almost all admiralty cases argued before a judge only.

Gee, I wonder if a bush appointee will hear the case?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: brien Dan; You have quite an imagination and I mean that sincerely. Have you ever considered writing fiction? Can you write dialogue because if you can, I'll give you the name of my contact in the publishing world.

Thank You, I may take you up on that. I have written some fiction many years ago. One of the main reasons I joined volconvo, was to learn to type. I couldnt keep up in the chat rooms

I wrote a couple of little (Alfred Hitchcock Magazine type) mysteries and a nearly finished novel (about 200 pages). I never submitted them and they are long gone now. The people I showed them to, enjoyed them. I couldnt write that kind of stuff anymore, the violence is gross.

I understand your suspicions, and I myself don't trust the government, but I think the key word here is "reasonable."

They have certainly given us no reason to trust them.
Like dumbya says"Fool me.......... fool me once..... duh, um er,...... Shame on

shame on — shame on you.
Fool me —

....you can't get fooled again!" Watch it here (Direct link Quick Time)

[bishop]

how do these posts about civil lawsuits tie into your ever-changing conspiracy theory? to me, it's no surprise that there would be a littany of civil lawsuits following the collapse of enron.. like sharks going after blood, lawyers went after lay and his remaining assets.. just another source of the stress that caused his preexisting heart condition to act up.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: bishop how do these posts about civil lawsuits tie into your ever-changing conspiracy theory?

I am just assembling the oddities in the case. Once we have enough little puzzle pieces, the big picture will make sense.
Its not a little bit odd to you that Admiralty would apply to this case?

I am not the only one who is suspicious:



Read NY Post Story "LAY HIM LOW: ENRON'S CHIEF CROOK DUCKS BIG HOUSE BY DROPPING DEAD"

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: brien Ahhh Scrib, but you can't be serious. I remember some of your posts with regard to torture at Gitmo and in Abu Grab. Let's remain true to our ideals here. Sure Lay was a scumbag thief and ruined thousands of lives, yet he some how isn't more guilty that the finding of guilt in a court of law.

I always try to remain true to my ideals. The waterboarding was wishful thinking for what Lay has done. He actually deserves worse. It is extremely obvious this wouldn't be allowed so wishing it is as effective as wishing he would get gingivitis.

Now, just what were those prisoners at Abu Gharib<sp?> convicted of?

His death was merely a matter of timing and anyone who thinks he staged it so as to escape justice is by far, creating a scenario that probably just isn't true.

I think you must have meant this for Dan.

Fun to speculate, but as for the truth, I think you will see it buried in a few days.

I agree this story will be buried and drop off the radar, but not all that quickly. Wait until the majority of Americans find out the feds won't get a dime out of Lay's estate. Maybe HE doesn't get to keep it but that slimy wife of his will.

[bishop]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I am just assembling the oddities in the case. Once we have enough little puzzle pieces, the big picture will make sense. Its not a little bit odd to you that Admiralty would apply to this case? I am not the only one who is suspicious:

did you actually read that story? it seems you unwittingly cited a story that supports the official cause of his death and doesn't contain any conspiracy nonsense..

Quote by: article An autopsy performed by the Mesa County coroner showed he had died of heart disease. The coroner, Dr. Robert Kurtzman, said the autopsy also revealed that Lay had suffered a heart attack in the past.

and as for the admiralty stuff... i've had some education in law, but i've never once heard of admiralty, so i can't really give an intelligent response as to whether/not the case is normal or weird.. but, what does seem to be the case is that it's entirely circumstantial and bears no relavence or relationship to the fact that lay had preexisting health problems... and it's well known that problems like heart conditions can easily be triggered by high stress levels - which lay undeniably suffered from.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: bishop did you actually read that story? it seems you unwittingly cited a story that supports the official cause of his death and doesn't contain any conspiracy nonsense..

It wasnt "unwittingly". I read the story, which is the same old, same old.
The cover was the main point of my post.
I offerred the link to support the photo.

I dont think it would be unethical to raise the lid at the funeral and take a DNA sample.
Just for the sake of argument.




bishop, dont get me wrong. I am not saying that the official story is definitely wrong. I am just posting some alternatives that may come to the surface later. Its pretty much just "what ifs". Speculation. Which is what we are supposed to do, since they havent given us anything solid to chew on.

[bishop]

which is more substantive? the article's catchy front-page title, or its content? having formerly lived extremely close to nyc, and working/traveling there, i'm very familiar with the post's tendency to give their front-page articles eye-catching, tabloid-esque titles..

as for not having anything "solid to chew on"... the official autopsy report doesn't qualify? if an autopsy isn't sufficient, what is? i do get the feeling, however, that you will continue to push this conspiracy regardless of whatever new/existing information comes to light..

and, nothing wrong with speculation at all, i do it myself even if i don't always post those thoughts.. i usually like to err on the side of what's most realistic though.. hell, maybe he was abducted by aliens and his death is just a government cover-up..

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: bishop as for not having anything "solid to chew on"... the official autopsy report doesn't qualify? if an autopsy isn't sufficient, what is?

I havent seen the autopsy. Have you? Has anyone?
I am interested in what he had for dinner, a picture of the deceased (so we know they got the right guy) and if he was shot in the face by a shotgun, I want dental records and fingerprints that prove they got the right crook. Especially since the crook is best friend and mentor of the most powerful retard in the world.

Its just way too coincidental that hes getting out of prison this way.

[bishop]

heh, i guess his preexisting heart condition is also coincidental, eh?

i'm not sure that they do this, but do hospitals usually release the grisly pictures of people they autopsy? have you seen ronald reagan's autopsy? maybe we'll get to see the corpse paraded through the street for all to see..

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: bishop heh, i guess his preexisting heart condition is also coincidental, eh?

I dont remember hearing anything about it before now. It could still only exist on paper. how can I ever believe anything they say, ever again?

Quote by: bishop i'm not sure that they do this, but do hospitals usually release the grisly pictures of people they autopsy?

Sure, well, "release" might not be the most accurate term

Quote by: bishop have you seen ronald reagan's autopsy?

I think its pretty obvious Reagan died from Mad Cow/Alzheimers. And he wasnt ever convicted of his crimes.

Quote by: bishop maybe we'll get to see the corpse paraded through the street for all to see..

Like I said I dont want to see his head on a pike. Strange that bushs friend is the enemy of the people. Still no comment from junior?


Off Topic;
I thought of you when I saw this bishop:

[bishop]

Quote by: dan I dont remember hearing anything about it before now.

i don't see why it would have been in the news up until now.. it isn't like he's the vice president or something...

and just how you can doubt everything about lay's death, similar logic could be applied to reagan and everything else under the sun.. i just think that you're pushing this theory for the sake of it.. as it currently stands, your own theory has taken several abrupt turns - all from posts on the 1st page of this thread..


heh.. and nice pic.. that definitely applied to me a few years ago. i'm not sure if it applies anymore though, especially since i don't have a damn clue what this GOP really does stand for - aside from corporatism, bigotry, corruption and war.. these days, i'm more of a reluctant libertarian i think.

[gr8fuldaniel]

From the radio (no link):

Ken Lays conviction overturned.

Seems we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty.

It follows that we are presumed innocent until ALL of our appeals are closed.

Lay has not used any appeals yet

In conclusion Ken Lay keeps all of his assets. One mansion is worth 5 million and he has

$5 million in savings. He can guzzle a lot of margaritas in Aruba with that.

[bishop]

out of curiousity and skepticism, what radio station are you listening to?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Link

Theres a link at top to listen live. Elayne Boozler is filling in for Stephanie Miller

bio ELAYNE BOOSLER is the one of the busiest and most popular comedians working today. She was recently named one of “Comedy Central’s 100 Greatest Comics of All Time,” and was prominently featured on VH-1’s “When Stand-up Comics Ruled the World.” <snip>