'Railroad Killer' begs forgiveness before dying

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Hmm... I didn't see in the article where his death allowed his victims to magically rise from the grave. Or where his death rehabilitated him. In fact, I didn't see anything except vengance coming from this. So if that's your idea of justice, I suppose it was served.

I don't think it is totally vengence, but also justice. We all have to pay for what we do in one way or another. To kill that many people means you have absolutely no respect for life. This means he could also kill in prison, possibly a guard, or another prisoner, so he was a danger to society beyond what is a doubt.

He was asking forgiveness in the end because he figured if their is an afterlife he wanted a chance at it that's all that was.

I see no huge need to try to rehabilitate ruthless criminals. They can be beyond hope. Many are. It's a waste of time.

[Autolykos]

From what I understand, the point of justice is to restore the previous state of affairs. In other words, "justice" is synonymous with "restitution". However, in the case of murder, there can be no restitution. A person cannot be brought back to life (at least, not with current technology). That is why, in cases such as murder, I say that there can be no justice. There can only be revenge.

When it comes to murder, I favor the old practice of outlawing. That is, a person convicted of murder is thereby placed outside of the law. If the victim's friends and/or family want to exact revenge from his murderer, they are then free to do so without legal consequence.

- Rob

[Sandy]

The Death Penalty is decided by the voters of all 50 states. Texas has used it more than any other state which should tell people not to murder anyone in Texas! Duh! If you don't like the Death Penalty change your state's laws. We did in California where it was outlawed for years......until the Manson family murders. The fact that the two men who planned the murders are still alive brought the voters of California to reinstate it and it was done in less than 3 months.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Wailer I admit---my comment was a bit harsh. However, if someone senselessly and brutally murdered one of my loved ones, that is exactly how I would feel. Now imagine if I were home with my family and Angel Resendiz unlawfully entered my home with the intent to commit murder and mayhem and I killed him, saving my family and myself. Would I be a murderer then? A cold-blooded killer? Remorseful later for defending my family? Methinks not on all accounts. "Grab your torch and pitchforks, it's an ogre." Wailer

Self defense is completely different. You would be preventing a crime.

Once a person is removed from society, its no longer a self defense issue.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Sandy The Death Penalty is decided by the voters of all 50 states. Texas has used it more than any other state which should tell people not to murder anyone in Texas! Duh! If you don't like the Death Penalty change your state's laws. We did in California where it was outlawed for years......until the Manson family murders. The fact that the two men who planned the murders are still alive brought the voters of California to reinstate it and it was done in less than 3 months.

I don't think governments should murder people, but they do. The death penalty is blatant hypocrisy on behalf of our government, for countless reasons.

Grandpa h.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Wailer http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/27/ra....ap/index.html Texas, U.S.A.---Angel Resendiz, aka the "Railroad Killer", was put to death last night at 8:05 p.m. CDT. In my opinion, justice was duly served. What do you opponents and proponents think?

I think the Law should allow scientific centers to get such people and conduct some experiments on them, instead.
We would have a better chance to figure out the reasons for that sort of behaviour, especially since terminating that person did not bring much answers.
Whether that person was mentaly and/or psychicaly impaired, does not bring the answer for his activity.

[Wailer]

Quote by: Rainbow Quote by: Wailer http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/06/27/ra....ap/index.html Texas, U.S.A.---Angel Resendiz, aka the "Railroad Killer", was put to death last night at 8:05 p.m. CDT. In my opinion, justice was duly served. What do you opponents and proponents think? I think the Law should allow scientific centers to get such people and conduct some experiments on them, instead. We would have a better chance to figure out the reasons for that sort of behaviour, especially since terminating that person did not bring much answers. Whether that person was mentaly and/or psychicaly impaired, does not bring the answer for his activity.

Rainbow,

I noticed you spelled "behaviour", so I am going to assume you are from the UK or somewhere outside the U.S.

Some of these sick individuals who commit mass, serial murder (here in the U.S.) become celebrities after they are convicted and sentenced. With a number enjoying cult followings from other sick individuals within our own society. Hell, Richard "Nightstalker" Ramirez is still receiving marriage proposals while he is behind bars.

Several logical posters on this thread have already established that Capital Punishment is not a deterrent to murder, and I agree with that. Capital Punishment is exactly what its name implies----punishment. Vengeance, as well, if you come from my school of thought.

But, IMHO, if our society adopts a "Commit Mass Murder and You Get to Live in Jail While Undergoing Scientific Research" stance, I think we would only foster the cults of personality that already surround these animals. These people have to know they may pay with their lives if they are caught.

Wailer

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Wailer Rainbow, I noticed you spelled "behaviour", so I am going to assume you are from the UK or somewhere outside the U.S. Some of these sick individuals who commit mass, serial murder (here in the U.S.) become celebrities after they are convicted and sentenced. With a number enjoying cult followings from other sick individuals within our own society. Hell, Richard "Nightstalker" Ramirez is still receiving marriage proposals while he is behind bars. Several logical posters on this thread have already established that Capital Punishment is not a deterrent to murder, and I agree with that. Capital Punishment is exactly what its name implies----punishment. Vengeance, as well, if you come from my school of thought. But, IMHO, if our society adopts a "Commit Mass Murder and You Get to Live in Jail While Undergoing Scientific Research" stance, I think we would only foster the cults of personality that already surround these animals. These people have to know they may pay with their lives if they are caught. Wailer

I understand your point.
I believe those people should be isolated from community, in any form.
Pure scientific research, only

Off Topic
I applied English version for "behaviour". Just similar to "humour", or "highway" vs. "speedway".
I do it sometimes. Nothing special, though :-)

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: Wailer Some of these sick individuals who commit mass, serial murder (here in the U.S.) become celebrities after they are convicted and sentenced. With a number enjoying cult followings from other sick individuals within our own society. Hell, Richard "Nightstalker" Ramirez is still receiving marriage proposals while he is behind bars.

So? That's other people's sick pathology. Has Jeffrey Dahmer or Jack the Ripper become less famous now that they are dead (presumably, in the Ripper's case)? They are not allowed to profit from their fame.

Several logical posters on this thread have already established that Capital Punishment is not a deterrent to murder, and I agree with that.

These people have to know they may pay with their lives if they are caught.

Umm... What do you think "deterrence" is? "Deterrence" is exactly what you said - "these people need to know they may pay with their lives..." Your first and second statements there are mutually exclusive.

[Wailer]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Quote by: Wailer Some of these sick individuals who commit mass, serial murder (here in the U.S.) become celebrities after they are convicted and sentenced. With a number enjoying cult followings from other sick individuals within our own society. Hell, Richard "Nightstalker" Ramirez is still receiving marriage proposals while he is behind bars. So? That's other people's sick pathology. Has Jeffrey Dahmer or Jack the Ripper become less famous now that they are dead (presumably, in the Ripper's case)? They are not allowed to profit from their fame. Several logical posters on this thread have already established that Capital Punishment is not a deterrent to murder, and I agree with that. These people have to know they may pay with their lives if they are caught. Umm... What do you think "deterrence" is? "Deterrence" is exactly what you said - "these people need to know they may pay with their lives..." Your first and second statements there are mutually exclusive.

Capital Punishment is not a detterent. At least not an effective one. If it were, then why do we still have murderers and serial killers? I say again, Capital Punishment is punishment. The ultimate penalty for taking another person's life.

Murderers or potential murderers should know they can pay the ultimate price for their crime of murder. Not as a deterrent, but to know that they are not simply going to live the rest of their lives as a resarch subject. If they are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then their own death should be their restitution to society.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: tivodan1116 These people have to know they may pay with their lives if they are caught. Umm... What do you think "deterrence" is? "Deterrence" is exactly what you said - "these people need to know they may pay with their lives..." Your first and second statements there are mutually exclusive.

You guys are assuming death is a punishment. What if they say hell mary 5 times, then proceed to paradise. No harm no foul?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Or what if theres no substantial "after-life",
with the exception of becoming worm or plant food.
What if a couple of the ashes or the smoke from the convicts cremation enters your lungs.
Or his buried body is diluted into the drinking water of your area.
Remember the Butterfly Effect .....
We are all connected.
Nobody gets erased.
Remember you may become what you hate;
so that you can transcend it.

[Wailer]

Never watched the Butterfly Effect. But since we really don't know what waits for us after we die, then death is still the ultimate punishment...or banishment. However you want to look at it.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Wailer Never watched the Butterfly Effect.

I was referring to the (chaos) theory, not the movie.

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...759332,00.html The butterfly effect, first described by Lorenz at the December 1972 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington, D.C., vividly illustrates the essential idea of chaos theory. In a 1963 paper for the New York Academy of Sciences, Lorenz had quoted an unnamed meteorologist's assertion that, if chaos theory were true, a single flap of a single seagull's wings would be enough to change the course of all future weather systems on the earth. By the time of the 1972 meeting, he had examined and refined that idea for his talk, "Predictability: Does the Flap of a Butterfly's Wings in Brazil set off a Tornado in Texas?" The example of such a small system as a butterfly being responsible for creating such a large and distant system as a tornado in Texas illustrates the impossibility of making predictions for complex systems; despite the fact that these are determined by underlying conditions, precisely what those conditions are can never be sufficiently articulated to allow long-range predictions.

Quote by: Wailer But since we really don't know what waits for us after we die, then death is still the ultimate punishment...or banishment. However you want to look at it.

I really dont understand that.
Wouldn't ending his tortured existence be doing him a favor? Whereas if he were denied any creature comforts for the rest of his life, without possibility of ever experiencing grass and carpet and a cushioned chair, or a good meal or sex (with the opposite sex), or just the freedom to walk outside and breathe fresh air. To feel the sun or snow or rain. No freedoms and no rights. For life.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Self defense is completely different. You would be preventing a crime. Once a person is removed from society, its no longer a self defense issue.

For the guards and other prisoners it might be.

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel You guys are assuming death is a punishment. What if they say hell mary 5 times, then proceed to paradise. No harm no foul?

The" Hail Mary's" would have to be said with a pure heart, and true remorse. Empty words mean nothing. But if a God were to forgive them of their sins that would be His choice.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Right, so that would be rewarding the guy. Rather than punishing him.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Right, so that would be rewarding the guy. Rather than punishing him.

Either way, he's gone. I don't have a problem with that.

[Wailer]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Quote by: Wailer Never watched the Butterfly Effect. I was referring to the (chaos) theory, not the movie. http://whatis.techtarget.com/definit...759332,00.html The butterfly effect, first described by Lorenz at the December 1972 meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington, D.C., vividly illustrates the essential idea of chaos theory. In a 1963 paper for the New York Academy of Sciences, Lorenz had quoted an unnamed meteorologist's assertion that, if chaos theory were true, a single flap of a single seagull's wings would be enough to change the course of all future weather systems on the earth. By the time of the 1972 meeting, he had examined and refined that idea for his talk, "Predictability: Does the Flap of a Butterfly's Wings in Brazil set off a Tornado in Texas?" The example of such a small system as a butterfly being responsible for creating such a large and distant system as a tornado in Texas illustrates the impossibility of making predictions for complex systems; despite the fact that these are determined by underlying conditions, precisely what those conditions are can never be sufficiently articulated to allow long-range predictions. Quote by: Wailer But since we really don't know what waits for us after we die, then death is still the ultimate punishment...or banishment. However you want to look at it. I really dont understand that. Wouldn't ending his tortured existence be doing him a favor? Whereas if he were denied any creature comforts for the rest of his life, without possibility of ever experiencing grass and carpet and a cushioned chair, or a good meal or sex (with the opposite sex), or just the freedom to walk outside and breathe fresh air. To feel the sun or snow or rain. No freedoms and no rights. For life.

Thanks, I will research this chaos theory. Sounds very interesting.

I am not sure how tortured these individuals really are. You and I would live a tortured existence if we were responsible for the death of another human being, but I actually think these guys enjoy what they are doing.

You make a very good point about denying creature comforts for the rest of his life, but my argument is that he would still be ALIVE. We all want to LIVE. Whether we be ordinary Joe Schmoe's or mass murderers, survival, or wanting to stay ALIVE, is an innate trait we all share.

So let's take from him what he wants most---to be alive. We would be killing (no pun intended) two birds with one stone---it would save a helluva lot of money and justice would be served.

Wailer

[Marilyn Monroe]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Right, so that would be rewarding the guy. Rather than punishing him.

Maybe. But....there could be a Purgatory.