US defends tracking transactions

[Sean]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5110282.stm

US Treasury Secretary John Snow has defended a secret programme which has been tracking international money transactions for nearly five years. "This programme is an effective weapon in the larger war on terror," he said. The scheme, which has sifted huge amounts of data from an international banking consortium, was revealed by the New York Times newspaper on Friday. The US treasury says the programme was strictly confined to the records of suspected foreign terrorists. Although there is no direct connection, the programme has echoes of a recently revealed US surveillance programme in which millions of international and domestic phone calls and e-mails were monitored, correspondents say.

[brien]

Weren't they doing this when they were "tracking" the drug cartels? I am not surprised by another "sceret program" in the good ol USA. I think it would be a bit naiive to think that the US government wasn't tracking everything they could so as to spy upon anyone they think warrants their attention.

[Milton Bradley]

They're too busy pretending they can't track money laundering, and drug smuggling to keep their stories straight.


These are just crooks Hell bent on maintaing the seat of power through whatever means necesarry.


You have to admit, if they are tracking everything, and yet fraud continues to flourish in that environment, then obviously they aren't enforcing the laws they could enforce.


How could such a conundrum ever occur under the watchful eye of the American citizens?

[Osborn F Enready]

They have been doing this for years, PROMIS, Echelon.

They are just talking about it now hoping that people won't FORCE THEM TO REVEAL THOSE PUTS that occurred RIGHT BEFORE 9-11, using SEC records.

[Mr.Vicchio]

It's amazing that now that they are doing these "Secret" trackings we haven't been hit again here in the USA and have seen a good number of terror cells taken out. I think that is worth noting. Besides, they are traking large money transferes to and from over seas, not reading your bank statement.

[Osborn F Enready]

Wow Vic, maybe we should all just turn all our money over to the "gubbmint" and we can just get debit cards on our national accounts? Maybe DNA, hair follicle, and eye scanner ID cards? Maybe we could all join the new empire officer training school?

AS if you know what they are doing Vic. Please.

[Milton Bradley]

I know what they're doing, they're breaking the damn law.


Now if they used that technology to produce the parties guilty of all those "puts" on the Twin Towers on 9/11, I might think there was a hint of truth in their message, but as it is, they just want to monitor the cycles for while before they launch the next part of their Contract on America.

[eburchelli]

Don't be silly. The government has everyone in their database via the IRS. I don't hear any of you complaining about that. They already know a lot more about us than even we can guess at. If they wanted Mr. or Mrs. John Q. Public, they already have enough information on us to get us. People are being paranoid about these so-called secret programs. There has been spying since time began. It isn't something that was just invented in 2000 when Bush became President.

[rcne]

Is this a case of the media going to far? I equate it to releasing to the Japanese that we broke their code and could intercept messages. Now the financiers will just go deeper, making it harder to track the international bad guys. This op seemed to have all the T's crossed and I's dotted, so what purpose other than selling newspapers was accomplished?

"By disclosing this in time of war, they have compromised America's anti-terrorist policies," said King, referring to New York Times reporters and editors. "Nobody elected the New York Times to do anything. And the New York Times is putting its own arrogant, elitist, left-wing agenda before the interests of the American people."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ack=crosspromo

[Osborn F Enready]

eburchelli said: The government has everyone in their database via the IRS. I don't hear any of you complaining about that.

I say:
Obviously you haven't read many of my posts.

eburchelli said: There has been spying since time began. It isn't something that was just invented in 2000 when Bush became President.

I say:
I agree, it has only expanded and grown like wildfire since Bush has been in office, and mainly directed and focused on U.S. citizens. It also expanded while Clinton was in office. It also expanded while Bush Sr. was in office. It also expanded while Reagan, Carter and every other President since Roosevelt was in office......

Both parties wear the crown of treason, and they have both acted against not only the American people, but their oaths as sworn protectors of ALL Constitutional Rights for all Americans. 156 years, and still going. Selling your rights, your labor, your gold to the world banks for profit for years, and even allowing you to pick up those intrest charges you have no control over.

Thank the League of Women Voters, thank the CPD, thank their corporate sponsors for isolating election debates to ONLY the two major parties in almost all cases.

[rmnunez]

A week after 911, on September 28 2001, the Security Council passed (unanimously) SC/7158 a "Wide Ranging Anti-terrorism Resolution" calling for "Supressing its Financing and Improving International Cooperation" which reads in relevant part:

3. Calls upon all States to: (a) Find ways of intensifying and accelerating the exchange of operational information, especially regarding actions or movements of terrorist persons or networks; forged or falsified travel documents; traffic in arms, explosives or sensitive materials; use of communications technologies by terrorist groups; and the threat posed by the possession of weapons of mass destruction by terrorist groups; (b) Exchange information in accordance with international and domestic law and cooperate on administrative and judicial matters to prevent the commission of terrorist acts; (c) Cooperate, particularly through bilateral and multilateral arrangements and agreements, to prevent and suppress terrorist attacks and take action against perpetrators of such acts; … 4. Notes with concern the close connection between international terrorism and transnational organized crime, illicit drugs, money-laundering, illegal arms-trafficking, and illegal movement of nuclear, chemical, biological and other potentially deadly materials, and in this regard emphasizes the need to enhance coordination of efforts on national, subregional, regional and international levels in order to strengthen a global response to this serious challenge and threat to international security; http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2001/sc7158.doc.htm

Thus this concern with banks sharing financial information of suspicious accounts is not really news.

[brien]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio . Besides, they are traking large money transferes to and from over seas, not reading your bank statement.

Not true Vic. Every deposit over $10,000 one makes into their bank account is reported to the IRS.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I know what they're doing, they're breaking the damn law. Now if they used that technology to produce the parties guilty of all those "puts" on the Twin Towers on 9/11, I might think there was a hint of truth in their message, but as it is, they just want to monitor the cycles for while before they launch the next part of their Contract on America.

Which law?

[brien]

Quote by: eburchelli Don't be silly. The government has everyone in their database via the IRS. I don't hear any of you complaining about that. They already know a lot more about us than even we can guess at. If they wanted Mr. or Mrs. John Q. Public, they already have enough information on us to get us. People are being paranoid about these so-called secret programs. There has been spying since time began. It isn't something that was just invented in 2000 when Bush became President.

Well perhaps you haven't been around here long enough to know some of us. There are several people here, of which I am one, who advocate the total abolishment of the IRS.

I also understand that the American government will get the average citizen if they want him, yet when it comes to OBL, Mexican Drug dealers, or similar bad gys, they have more excuses than Carter has pills.

Anyone who thinks that the American government doesn't "spy" on their citizens is just naiive. It is just the terminology here. They think the word "spy" and think either James Bond or "Spy vs Spy" in Mad Magazine. When I think of the word "spy" I think warrantless intrusion into the privacy of citizens. As in when the government monitors all $10,000 deposits into private bank accounts through the IRS.

[Marconius]

"By disclosing this in time of war, they have compromised America's anti-terrorist policies," said King, referring to New York Times reporters and editors. "Nobody elected the New York Times to do anything. And the New York Times is putting its own arrogant, elitist, left-wing agenda before the interests of the American people."

This would be helping the terrorists, that is if the terrorists didnt already know. The government has been talking publicly about tracking terrorists through their banking for a long time, nothing to see here, except another example of people trying to silence the press when they dont like the story.

Also, this is not technically a time of war, since congress hasnt declared war.

[rmnunez]

Marconious, from where I see it it seems more like an agenda-driven media resucitating an old story, as you note, the US government has been talking about tracking terrorists' financial transactions for a long time, I think there's even some Rumsfeld quote on great success with this. As I posted, relevant resolutions called for sharing financial information to track potentially terrorist activity go back to the first week post-911, so it is old news.

This story didn't resonate back then and doesn't elicit much public debate again, other than to highlight the perfidy of the NYT.

[Apeman81]

A rather silly attempt to generate a tempest in a teapot. It's designed to add a bit more mud to the water in hopes of helping to bring about a change of party control in congress.

As if the government has enough personnel to monitor and review the billions of account tranactions in order to see if your average Joe's bank charges show if he's buying Guns and Ammo or Home and Garden. A little too busy looking for people hoping to kill us.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Apeman81 Which law?

How about the constitution.


I have heard of public discloser, like for elected officials, but I was not aware such a level of information on "citizens" was required to carry on the normal operation of government.


I'm tired of these references to the government having concerns over the close connection between international terrorism and transnational organized crime, illicit drugs, money laundering, illegal arms trafficking, and the like, because we all know by now that those are the normal functions of my corrupt, illegal, unconstitutional, Police State government, and the special interests that own their loyalty.


This hegemony is rapidly devolving into the proverbial 1984 scenario.

[Apeman81]

[quote=Milton Bradley]How about the constitution"

Article and Section. All else is bluster

[Marconius]

Quote by: rmnunez Marconious, from where I see it it seems more like an agenda-driven media resucitating an old story, as you note, the US government has been talking about tracking terrorists' financial transactions for a long time, I think there's even some Rumsfeld quote on great success with this. As I posted, relevant resolutions called for sharing financial information to track potentially terrorist activity go back to the first week post-911, so it is old news. This story didn't resonate back then and doesn't elicit much public debate again, other than to highlight the perfidy of the NYT.

The NYT thought that it would be interesting to their readers so they printed it, as has always been the way of news.

I was far more disturbed by calls to punish the NYT for reporting on a story that harms no one, except possibly some politicians. The freedom of the press was not created to make politicians look good and raise poll numbers.

The reaction of those who are saying that what they did was wrong also proves that this was worthy of print since many apparently didnt know about the program or that the terrorists have already switched to different methods to move their money.