Bush: If Marines killed civilians, they'll be punished

[Sean]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...tha/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- If an investigation finds Marines killed 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians last year, "there will be punishment," President Bush said Wednesday. "The Marine Corps is full of honorable people who understand the rules of war," Bush said in his first public comments on the killings in Haditha. "... those who violated the law, if they did, will be punished." Military investigators strongly suspect that a small number of Marines snapped after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb November 19 in Haditha, a city on the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad, and went on a rampage, sources told CNN. (Map) White House spokesman Tony Snow said Tuesday the results of the investigation would not be covered up. "I have been told and was assured earlier today when I called about it that when this comes out, all the details will be made available to the public, so we'll have a picture of what happened," Snow said. Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that two investigations are being conducted -- one into the killings themselves, and the second focusing on "why didn't we know about it sooner than we knew about it."

[PatrickHenry]

Yeah. Punish the triggermen, but conceal the atrocity mindset of an occupation that didn't have to happen. It figures.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/053006Z.shtml

[RickSp]

US troops kill civilians on a regular basis in Iraq. What makes Haditha unusual is that they killed two dozen at one time, covered it up and got caught in the cover-up.

News from today's papers:

Two Iraqi women were shot to death north of Baghdad after coalition forces fired on a vehicle that failed to stop at an observation post, the U.S. military said Wednesday. Iraqi police and relatives said one of the women was about to give birth.

Troops shoot two Iraqi women at checkpoint

[Dmkjr]

Usually the cover-ups are a little bit better than this one. Living on Camp Lejuene for 10 years in NC, you see alot of what Marines do is covered up. They rape a girl, who cares. They kill an Iraqi, who gives a damn. They kill a dozen or so, they don't care.

It's only becoming an issue, because they are killing more and more. People are noticing, people are speaking.

[RickSp]

Iraq PM impatient with US troops killing civilians

Iraq's prime minister said on Tuesday his patience was wearing thin with excuses from U.S. troops that they kill civilians by "mistake" and said he would launch an investigation into killings at Haditha last year. "There is a limit to the acceptable excuses. Yes a mistake may happen but there is an acceptable limit to mistakes," Nuri al-Maliki told Reuters when asked about a U.S. investigation into the deaths of 24 Iraqis in the western town last November. "We are worried about the increase in 'mistakes'. I am not saying that they are intentional. But it is worrying for us," he said in an interview in his offices in Baghdad. Many Iraqis believe unjustified killings by U.S. troops are common, though few have been confirmed by investigations. The most common complaint is that troops open fire too hastily at checkpoints or when Iraqis approach their convoys too closely. Maliki said his own government would probe not just Haditha but other cases: "We will ask for answers not only about Haditha but about any operation ... in which killing happened by mistake and we will hold those who did it responsible." Noting a probe into the deaths of people in a U.S.-Iraqi raid on a Baghdad mosque in March, he added: "We will use our authority since we are responsible for protecting the Iraqi people, and we are elected by people ... Those who kill intentionally or through negligence should be tried."

[Zeebadee]

"If an investigation finds Marines killed 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians last year, "there will be punishment," President Bush said Wednesday."

Oh yeah, the standard "investigation". That means delaying the release of any information for as long as possible, then releasing a little info at a time to lessen the impact. The longer the "investigation" takes, the more the story dies down. Some poor schmuck of a non-com is gonna do a year or two in jail for this.

[shield772]

What happened to innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, does it not apply to US servicemen, I know y'all don't think it applies to Republicans.

[PatrickHenry]

What happened to death for shedding innocent blood, shield?

[shield772]

Do you know that they shed innocent blood, do you know the circumstances surrounding the incident, I find it shocking that such intelligent and fair minded individuals as yourselves would ignore the most basic of constitutional principles like a trial and being jusged by a jury of your peers, such a rush to judgement such a rush to spill blood, I believe this makes you exactly what you accuse ofthers of being.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: shield772 Do you know that they shed innocent blood, do you know the circumstances surrounding the incident, I find it shocking that such intelligent and fair minded individuals as yourselves would ignore the most basic of constitutional principles like a trial and being jusged by a jury of your peers, such a rush to judgement such a rush to spill blood, I believe this makes you exactly what you accuse ofthers of being.

Sorry for my rush to judgement, shield. Six months of coverup is really too short a time to determine that US MARINES EXECUTED CHILDREN:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/14695656.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/053006J.shtml

I guess those cleaning up the blood were just sissies...

[RickSp]

Quote by: shield772 Do you know that they shed innocent blood, do you know the circumstances surrounding the incident, I find it shocking that such intelligent and fair minded individuals as yourselves would ignore the most basic of constitutional principles like a trial and being jusged by a jury of your peers, such a rush to judgement such a rush to spill blood, I believe this makes you exactly what you accuse ofthers of being.

Oh come on. The issues of whether individual soldiers are guilty of specific crimes has yet to be determined. We shouldn't presume the guilt of individual soldiers for specific crimes. That doesn't change the obvious - 24 Iraqis, including women and children, were killed and their deaths were initially covered up and would have stayed covered up had not Time magazine reported the truth.

The larger responsibility is already being covered up. The focus is on individual Marines while ignoring the officers who shaped the cover-up and completely ignoring the larger policies that made this sort of atrocity almost unavoidable. The last time we were bogged down in an-unwinnable guerilla war, the same thing happened at My Lai.

[Scribbler1]

I would demand accountability, of course, but I would also remember these people are occupying a country where EVERY SINGLE citizen there could very likely be out to kill them. No uniforms, flags or any other identifier.

There is no rest from THIS kind of fighting. The stress levels must be inhuman and we must remember that.

The man who PUT them there must be equally accountable for these killings. Bush pulled that particular trigger and he must be held responsible as well.

[shield772]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Sorry for my rush to judgement, shield. Six months of coverup is really too short a time to determine that US MARINES EXECUTED CHILDREN: http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/14695656.htm http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/053006J.shtml I guess those cleaning up the blood were just sissies...

Not saying it didn't happen, not saying that they didn't commit a crime just saying let NCIS investigate and let a military court try them, this is how our justice system works even for military personnel

[Sonart]

.

Quote by: Patrick Henry Yeah. Punish the triggermen, but conceal the atrocity mindset of an occupation that didn't have to happen. It figures.

Apparently a couple of troops were sent the following days with cameras the photograph the badies, and payments were promptly made to the families. At the same time, the Marines were claiming the deaths were the result of the roadside bomb, which would not warrant U.S. payments to the victims.

Methinks one could reasonably assume from this that Marines beyond the triggermen were aware that the victims did not die from the bomb but were shot, yet a decision was made to conceal that fact... until months later when the TIME magazine story came out. Why is this not being investigated, with potential charges? Or, as always, is it just the grunts who get thrown to the wolves?

.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I would demand accountability, of course, but I would also remember these people are occupying a country where EVERY SINGLE citizen there could very likely be out to kill them. No uniforms, flags or any other identifier. There is no rest from THIS kind of fighting. The stress levels must be inhuman and we must remember that. The man who PUT them there must be equally accountable for these killings. Bush pulled that particular trigger and he must be held responsible as well.

Exactly. Sending even the most highly trained Marines into a guerilla war in a country with such a vastly different culture, language and religion, especially when the Marines are stretched too thin to start with, almost guarantees that this sort of massacre will take place sooner or later. The US "Rule of Engagement" encourage it.

I am not suggesting that if it can be shown that individuals shot woman and children that they should not be punished. Only that the polticians and generals who set this inevitable process in motion should share the blame.

[dreamer]

It will come that someone at the bottom will be used as a scapegoat. not right when you think about it.
It could happen to you and me?.

Dreamer

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: RickSp Exactly. Sending even the most highly trained Marines into a guerilla war in a country with such a vastly different culture, language and religion, especially when the Marines are stretched too thin to start with, almost guarantees that this sort of massacre will take place sooner or later. The US "Rule of Engagement" encourage it.

And the most glaring comparison with Vietnam is how the "enemies" and "friendlies" are the same people. This is a frigging Steven King novel where the people who love you and the ones who want to slaughter you are the same and you are right in the middle of them. I can't imagine something much more horrific than a group of people (1/2 of them "weekend warriors") who are forced to go to a place where the same people they are supposedly defending against "insurgents" are the ones planting bombs under their cars. A situation where every face that appears around every corner might be the face of your killer and you can't shoot first is impossible, IMO, and the fact that you cannot LEAVE makes it worse. Morons like Bush seem to think these people are machines. They are not. And he already KNOWS they are not indestructible.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Scribbler1 And the most glaring comparison with Vietnam is how the "enemies" and "friendlies" are the same people.

In the early part of the war the Pentagon was referring to the insurgents as the "anti-Iraqi" forces. They still do from time to time. So the "anti-Iraqi" Iraqis are attacking the "pro-Iraqi" non-Iraqi occupiers. It is beyond surreal. Your comparison to a Steven King novel makes sense, except that King novels all have a twisted internal logic which is more than can be said for the Bush administration policies.

And remember all the predictions about the insurgency collapsing when they caught Saddam, or when they had elections or when the new government took office. Now the Pentagon is predicting that the insurgency will begin to wane sometime in 2007 after staying steady through 2006.
Pentagon sees Iraqi rebel strength holding steady

I'm sure this prediction will be as accurate as all the others.

[Technosoul]

Quote by: Sean http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/...tha/index.html WASHINGTON (CNN) -- If an investigation finds Marines killed 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians last year, "there will be punishment," President Bush said Wednesday. "The Marine Corps is full of honorable people who understand the rules of war," Bush said in his first public comments on the killings in Haditha. "... those who violated the law, if they did, will be punished." Military investigators strongly suspect that a small number of Marines snapped after one of their own was killed by a roadside bomb November 19 in Haditha, a city on the Euphrates River northwest of Baghdad, and went on a rampage, sources told CNN. (Map) White House spokesman Tony Snow said Tuesday the results of the investigation would not be covered up. "I have been told and was assured earlier today when I called about it that when this comes out, all the details will be made available to the public, so we'll have a picture of what happened," Snow said. Marine Gen. Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said Monday that two investigations are being conducted -- one into the killings themselves, and the second focusing on "why didn't we know about it sooner than we knew about it."

It is totally pointless for President Bush to make a speech about anything at all, he has told so many untruths that we cannot trust anything he might say. Why waste time listening to him?

[Boetie]

This is funny hearing this talk coming from Bush Jr.

Bush Jr talked the coward talk, scared and bewildered he attacked an innocent country, a country that had zero to do with 911 and this bozo Bush Jr talks of honor and rules of war.

If it's rules he is so concerned about then let him answer this questions, "Did Congress declare war?" That of course is an easy answer, which is, Congress did not declare war.

The crimes those Marines committed by killing innocent people is the same crime Bush Jr comitted by waging an illegal war against an innocent country. The only difference is the Marines are to have killed 24, while Bush Jr killed 3000 innocent American soldiers and 100,000 innocent people of Iraq.