Hayden named as Bush CIA choice

[bishop]

that's the only response i'm willing to give to someone who would rather demand information and plead ignorance than really debate the issue.. there have been lots of stories about us torturing people - the latest of which caused quite the stir in europe... google it up yourself if you haven't paid attention to current events.

it's impossible to completely prove/deny that we've actively pursued a pro-torture policy, but all the information that does exist certainly seems to point in the pro-torture direction... kind of defies logic that a war mongering administration that goes to war because it feels like it (while lying to the public) would really give a damn about torturing some muslims.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: bishop that's the only response i'm willing to give to someone who would rather demand information and plead ignorance than really debate the issue.. there have been lots of stories about us torturing people - the latest of which caused quite the stir in europe... google it up yourself if you haven't paid attention to current events. it's impossible to completely prove/deny that we've actively pursued a pro-torture policy, but all the information that does exist certainly seems to point in the pro-torture direction... kind of defies logic that a war mongering administration that goes to war because it feels like it (while lying to the public) would really give a damn about torturing some muslims.

There are stories that Elvis is still alive. They just don't get the attention they deserve, I guess.

You choose to believe the stories. Fine. That still does not make them true.

A working definition of the subject, Torture, would be most helpful.

Bush is bad. He lied. He wanted war with Iraq before he was elected. The military gladly and willingly does whatever Bush tells them, regardless of legality. Bush and the lapdog military hate muslems, even those soldiers that are muslem. Yadda yadda yadda

[bishop]

you come with little more than hot air ape.. what did your babble have to do with hayden being picked to head the cia?

[rmnunez]

Bishop's babble on torture suggests Hayden supports it since Bush does and supports him.

The worst I´ve seen on Hayden was that inability to quote the 4th amendment as he omited reasonable belief or probable cause for suspicion in search and seizure warrants. How grave a mistake or omnious a symptom was that omission? If he were a judge or an attorney, I'd be more worried, but he's an air force officer.

Hayden's job was to manage intelligence-gathering equipment which obviously could be used to invade privacy, but other amendments, constitutional provisions and laws protect against this. The issue is nuanced by the citizenship of the subject whose privacy is invaded. Wiretapping terrorist suspects' phones without warrants has nothing to do with torture or Bush's advocacy for it.

[bishop]

actually, i NEVER connected hayden to torture.. maybe you're simply confused?

i also noticed that you had no response to my comments about the domestic spying program, specifically how it ran contrary to the constitution.. they refused to attain warrants for these operations, thus they were unconstitutional.

[rmnunez]

I think warrant issuance for a terrorist suspect wiretap in the US would have to be different. They would need to develop some measure to avoid public dissemination of any data on this. However warrants issue in court from a judge and there must be a public record. Advocates, activists, agitators and other concerned citizens would want to know how many, how often and to what effect those wiretaps were authorized.

How do you deal with this? If its with complete and strict adherence to long-established traditional due process, then law-enforcement and intelligence-gathering entities will need to find an exception to the warrant requirement. If the critical left could countenance any gradation in due process guarantees, then we could discuss levels of privacy intromission tolerable when dealing with foreign terrorists in the US plotting attacks there.

[bishop]

you still didn't address the constitutional issue..

no duh that the government would have to change the rules to legalize their police state antics.. that isn't the issue. as it currently stands, the government can spy on its own citizens and only has to meet the paltry requirement of going to the secret FICA court and getting a secret rubber stamp/warrant for their activities... this FICA law is a joke on its own, but the bush administration can't even honor it.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: rmnunez I think warrant issuance for a terrorist suspect wiretap in the US would have to be different.

NSA WIRETAPS COLLECTED CALL
RECORDS ON TENS OF MILLIONS

So many terrorists...........so few terrorist events.

[bishop]

oh didn't you know? the more big brother can watch us, the more he can protect us. (that is, until the next bureaucratic blunder invites another terrorist attack.)




it also appears that hayden's nomination will permit bipartisan support for changing the FISA laws in order to legalize warrantless easedropping.

http://159.54.227.3/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../NEWS/60511021

great stuff, eh?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Bishop, I think you mean FISA: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act

You said FICA in your last post

I agree, FISA is a minimal protection.

Check out item g) in this EO 12139

Interesting to note the CIA Chief will already have a subordinate Militant in place as Deputy Director of CIA, Thats the guy who is actuall in charge of getting the FISA warrants.

Wiki Vice Admiral Albert M. Calland 2005 July - Present

We are all suspects in a futuristic Prison Planet.
I saw a similar article to yours, bishop

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...255_cia11.html Hayden open to eavesdropping changes By Charles Babington The Washington Post WASHINGTON — President Bush's choice to head the CIA told senators Wednesday that he would consider retiring from the military and bringing a controversial surveillance program "under federal law," senators and aides said.

Bear in mind the law says one of the parties spied upon must be a suspected terrorist, In their minds evrybody is a target. Weve gotta overthrow these rat bastards in November. Dont tolerate ANY election fraud.

There is a good reason why we have FISA, there is NO good reason for domestic spying.
Except for terrorizing "We the People", and gleaning profitable insider information for the Corporacracy.

The jackboots of freedom are approaching........

[gr8fuldaniel]

Anybody else see the pattern?

Bush APPOINTS (to a nominee position) John Bolton, who HATES the UN, and actually said the UN Should be BOMBED!!!

Alberto Gozalez "Geneva Convention is Quaint", a treaty we have signed. A treaty that protects Americans!

A signatory to PNAC he makes Vice President!

Bigots and Thieves and evil men of all sorts.

Condi Rice who failed us on 911 as NSA, promoted to Secretary of State (She must s*ck a mean c*ck)

ETC. ETC .............ad naseum

He has an impeccable knack for appointing

[Rainbow]

Quote by: rmnunez Wiretapping is a form of intelligence-gathering, anyone who works in the intelligence community would appreciate the benefits of easier procedures to tap phones.

That is one of techniques, widely practiced all over the world in every single state, unless technology lacking ones.