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This topic in Breaking News is about Exxon CEO: Use less of our stuff.

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Old May 3, 2006, 04:37 pm   #21 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman
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Here's a good article from the Economist on the subsidies and other benefits the oil industry enjoys, resulting in artificially lowered prices:

http://www.economist.com/displayStor...tory_ID=526651

If consumers had to pay a real free-market price for gasoline, I'm willing to bet that R&D in alternative areas would be greatly accellerated.


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Old May 3, 2006, 04:51 pm   #22 (permalink) (top)
brien
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Please... light rail is NOT an effective solution. It's mostly a liberal wet dream.
Ca'mon Morgan, It is being built in Charlotte NC and it will make a difference. People will be able to drive to the city limits, park their car, and jump on the light rail to go see the Panthers, do business in the city, and return home. Those who live within the city limits served by light rail will be able to do the same and leave the car in the garage. So tell the people of Charlotte light rail is a " liberal's wet dream" and they will politely disagree with you.

.


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Old May 3, 2006, 05:05 pm   #23 (permalink) (top)
bishop
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i used the light rail system in NJ and it definitely saved me a lot of money... i use the light rail system here in MA and it also saves me lots of money.

seems pretty effective as far as my wallet's concerned.


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Old May 3, 2006, 05:11 pm   #24 (permalink) (top)
SteveA
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Here's a solution that should satisfy Exxon and plenty of other people - remove a lot of legal impediments to having competition in the oil markets.

Iraq was a competitor ...


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Old May 3, 2006, 05:59 pm   #25 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman
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Ca'mon Morgan, It is being built in Charlotte NC and it will make a difference. People will be able to drive to the city limits, park their car, and jump on the light rail to go see the Panthers, do business in the city, and return home. Those who live within the city limits served by light rail will be able to do the same and leave the car in the garage. So tell the people of Charlotte light rail is a " liberal's wet dream" and they will politely disagree with you.
Show me the cost-benefit analysis studies and then we can talk.


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Old May 3, 2006, 06:00 pm   #26 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman
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i used the light rail system in NJ and it definitely saved me a lot of money... i use the light rail system here in MA and it also saves me lots of money.

seems pretty effective as far as my wallet's concerned.
New England is one of the few places in the country where it's actually economically feasable.


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Old May 4, 2006, 01:20 pm   #27 (permalink) (top)
brien
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Show me the cost-benefit analysis studies and then we can talk.

Morgan: There is one I found that supports NOT investing in LRT. It is at:
This is the html version of the file http://www.macalester.edu/qm4pp/Math...enefitWest.pdf. I am certain there are others that support NOT investing in LRT at yesterdays fuel costs. Perhaps as fuel goes higher the benefits becomes closer to the cost?

The study above is a left over study from the Clinton Era. No wonder it is a loser.

This is all assuming government will pay for LRT. Perhaps private industry can build and operate this system more effeciently than government? I would like to see a cost benefit analysis on this level. However I doubt we willl find one. It is too radical an idea. Ridership has to fund the cost of the system. I would not support an Amtrak type LRT. As the system is set up now, I would be in favor of tax credits for people who used LRT on a monthly ticketed basis.

. The studies I could find all use gasoline at lower price levels we find today. It is only logical that there will come a day when gasoline will be so expensive that LRT will be a reasonable alternative to driving in the city. Psychologically, people will be convinced to use the system because they are used to cheap gas under $3 per gallon. Not to mention the reason for not clogging cities with autommobiles.

When the cost of gasoline runs over $100+++ per barrel, the current cost benefit will probably be meaningless. Less cars and less fuel = less fuel consumption. The day is coming when the average commuter will not be able to afford to commute into the cities from the suburbs. When less people come into the cities, economically speaking, well do I really need to go into it?

Hey you are probably correct that LRT is a loser in today's market. But soon, in major cities, it may not be the case. There is coming a day when driving into cities is going to be a loser for most folks. Fuel, traffic, parking, crime, etc will make a mass transit system preferable to driving in to the major cities.

I suppose I should have not been so general in my statement with regard to LRT. But that's what we are all here for now isn't it?


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Old May 4, 2006, 01:34 pm   #28 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman
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What is the light rail going to be powered by?


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Old May 4, 2006, 01:44 pm   #29 (permalink) (top)
brien
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What is the light rail going to be powered by?
I saw two fuels. Electric and diesel. I understand where you are going here. Diesel fuel is a bust. Electricity, depending upon the source, is cheaper than diesel fuel. However, new technology couldn't rule out hydrogen as some buses are already running on now in California. Of course, I would favor hydrogen. And if you really want "off the wall future-istic power", electromagnetics. This is done in the physics lab but we have yet to figure out how to harness the power to our benefit.


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Old May 4, 2006, 02:30 pm   #30 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry
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Electric power is the wave of the future. There are many ways to produce it; some of them are very efficient and clean..


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Old May 4, 2006, 02:32 pm   #31 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman
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I saw two fuels. Electric and diesel. I understand where you are going here. Diesel fuel is a bust. Electricity, depending upon the source, is cheaper than diesel fuel. However, new technology couldn't rule out hydrogen as some buses are already running on now in California. Of course, I would favor hydrogen. And if you really want "off the wall future-istic power", electromagnetics. This is done in the physics lab but we have yet to figure out how to harness the power to our benefit.
In that case, why light rail? You can adapt those technologies to personal conveyances as well.


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Old May 4, 2006, 02:42 pm   #32 (permalink) (top)
brien
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In that case, why light rail? You can adapt those technologies to personal conveyances as well.
Because some cities are already grossly overcrowded with personal conveyance vehicles. You haven't been to NYC lately, have you? Why should we wait until Draconian measures must be taken by the government as they have already done in London?


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