[Anna]

Debating fools and idiots is always a waste of time, their ignorance does not allow for discussion based on reason. Emotions and emotional responses are a definite bar to effective dialogue.

Incapacitation was not "forgotten", I was simply responding to the point regarding rehabilitation. However, I agree that this is a major function of the prison system, and yet I also remind you of the fact that people are a result of what they learn. Social deviants are extremely rarely born as they are, (I say extremely rarely because there are some who have psychiatric problems that we have not the knowledge to repair that will cause them to display abberant behaviour). For the rest, it is the result of socialisation that creates the deviant personality. In most cases this can be directly attributed to treatment within institutions as a child, such institutions include family, school, and juvenile justice facilities.

It constantly amazes me that when our olympic heroes stand on the podium at the medal ceremony, the nation they represent feels a sense of pride at what they have created in the way of a sporting superstar. Yet when the criminal stands at the dock awaiting sentencing we do not feel a collective sense of shame, but rather blame the criminal entirely for what they have done. In both cases the person is a result of what the society has taught them through various opportunities, or the lack thereof. And, before you jump in and cite cases of people from extremely priveledged backgrounds committing crimes, the lessons are the same. If a white collar person is convicted of an offence it is generally one that involves money, a lesson learned through society where they have been indoctrinated into a competitive mindset and feel the need to make money through any means. For most successful business people there is always a degree of lawlessness in the way in which they make their millions. Some get caught, most don't. On the other hand, there are also white collar professionals who commit acts of violence, and even murder. Again I would be tempted to look more closely at the psychological framework in operation, ego, competition, etc. All of which are results of socialisation.

My point is, that we create these people ourselves. We then have an obligation to repair the damage that we have created, not simply excacerbate it through brutal treatment within a penal setting. It seems that you miss my point as to what result we can expect from such treatment, and that is an increase in violent crime and further reliance on a penal system that is antiquated and under resourced. One only has to take a look at the state of Texas, where over 2% of the adult population is incarcerated or under the control of the criminal justice system. When do we realise it is simply not working? Do we wait until 50% or more of the population is behind bars?

To say that there are some who simply cannot be rehabiulitated and reintegrated into society is a bit of a fallacy. We have never really made the attempt, so how can we know? I have been personally involved with one person who was considered beyond help, and so mean and bad that the government passed a law specifically designed to kepp this person behind bars with no hope of release. The law was even named after him, the Gregory Kable Community Protection Act. It was eventually defeated on constitutional grounds through a High Court appeal and the person who was considered behind rehabilitation has worked as a receptionist for a major printing company for the last 10 years, is regularly called upon to assist others in prison and on release, and is constantly requested to advise parliamentarians on issues of law, order, and civil liberties. He is, quite simply, now a highly respected and productive member of society. It is all too easy to say that some people are beyond help and throw them in the too hard basket to be forgotten and ignored. I prefer to look to ourselves and the lack of ability or motivation we have as a society to direct us into areas of research and learning that might assist us to work with such people in more effective ways. I do not believe that anybody is so far gone down the track of social deviance that they cannot be turned around with the right approach, simply that we have not found the methods as yet, and we need to work harder and smarter in order to do so.

You state that you couldn't care less about the crime rate inside of prison walls demonstrates that you suffer from the same collective ignorance that effects the majority of society. You forget one simple point....THEY GET OUT! When these people are released, if they have been brutalised and such brutality is sanctioned by the society that incarcerated them, how can you blame them for being abgry and violent? Society creates its own violence, and through the prison system it does it in a most effective way. By not caring about what happens to people in prison, we actively promote a far more violent society for our children.

The segregation of prisoners through different security classifications (maximum, medium, minimum) is completely ineffective because it uses methods of classification that have nothing to do with the actual brutality of the person. I do not intend to go into the methods employed as it would take volumes to effectively explain, but is is quite simple for a first time offender to find themself placed in maximum security, and this happens with such regularity as to make a mockery of the security rating system. You also forget the remand section of prisons, a place where people await convivtion or sentence and where they are often held for lengthy periods. In this poart of the prison system there are no such security classifications and it is often the most violent of all sections. Many of the people held in this part of the prison system will be released without conviction...that is to say they are found NOT GUILTY of any crime, and yet they are subjected to treatment that often exceeds the maximum security prison in its brutality.

I repeat, once again, NOT ONE penologist (the scientific experts in the field of prison studies) is willing to suggest that prison works as either a detterant to crime, or in the function of reducing crime in society. That is a strong claim, and a damning indictment on our penal systems.

You make mention of the fact that I have my own opinions.... at least my opinions are based on factual research, study, and evaluation. I am a senior research associate with a major Australian University examining prisons, rehabilitation and reintegration methods. I work with prisons and prisoners every day of my life. I have also spent four and a half years inside prison myself, where I was forced to cry due to what I saw and through the realisation that at our most base level we are no better than animals. I speak of the treatment by the prison staff, the prisoners themselves showed me a level of social structure that I have never seen in a community outside of prison. A society where people work together to endure the most severe hardships through selfless activity. Today I work at developing a social structure in the wider society that embraces what I found in the prisoner population.

Please, when passing comment on the prison system,, base your comments on facts, not bullshit.