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tusaki · Feb 5, 2004, 09:35 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (eburchelli,)

Why don't you find some new news? Those sexy details have been debunked just this past week with an official inquiry into the BBC and the suicide of the person who brought the idea to light. There is no longer any justification for using this idea to put blame on Tony Blair.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Please get your facts straight. Hutton criticized the way the BBC dealt with the story and debunked the 'Government made false claims' criticism. but their intelligence agencies WERE pressured and their words were twisted by downing street.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Lord Hutton Report Conclusions)

(v) Mr Alastair Campbell made it clear to Mr Scarlett on behalf of the
Prime Minister that 10 Downing Street wanted the dossier to be worded to make
as strong a case as possible in relation to the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s WMD, and 10 Downing Street made written suggestions to Mr Scarlett as to changes in the wording of the draft dossier which would strengthen it. But Mr Campbell recognized, and told Mr Scarlett that 10 Downing Street recognized, that nothing should be stated in the dossier with which the intelligence community were not entirely happy.
(vi) Mr Scarlett accepted some of the drafting suggestions made to him by 10 Downing Street but he only accepted those suggestions which were consistent with the intelligence known to the JIC and he rejected those suggestions which were not consistent with such intelligence and the dossier issued by the Government was approved by the JIC.
(viii)The term “sexed-up” is a slang expression, the meaning of which lacks clarity in the context of the discussion of the dossier. It is capable of two different meanings. It could mean that the dossier was embellished with items of
intelligence known or believed to be false or unreliable to make the case against Saddam Hussein stronger, or it could mean that whilst the intelligence contained in the dossier was believed to be reliable, the dossier was drafted in such a way as to make the case against Saddam Hussein as strong as the intelligence contained in it permitted. If the term is used in this latter sense, then because of the drafting suggestions made by 10 Downing Street for the purpose of making a strong case against Saddam Hussein, it could be said that the Government “sexed-up” the dossier.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Take the 45 minute claim, for example. Blair made it sound like Saddam could use the weapons against *us* in 45 minutes. While the original intelligence was: "Saddam can deploy chemical and biological munitions against his Shiite population within 45 minutes.". it became "Saddam can use WMD in 45 minutes".. which is true (based on the intelligence), but it implies something totally different.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sir Richard)

"The original report referred to chemical and biological munitions and that was taken to mean battlefield weapons," Sir Richard, known in MI6 as "C", said. "I think what subsequently happened to the reporting (was) it was taken that 45 minutes applied to weapons of a larger range than just battlefield."

Asked by counsel assisting Lord Hutton, James Dingemans, QC, whether he agreed misinterpretation placed on the '45 minute' intelligence, with the benefit of the claim had been given "undue prominence", he replied: "Given the hindsight, that's valid criticism."
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

This is what I mean with sexing up or pressuring the intelligence agencies. And I believe this happens all the time.

Downing Street: http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page271.asp
September Dossier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier
Guardian Articles: http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqandthemedi...,883261,00.html
September Report: http://www.number-10.gov.uk/files/pdf/iraqdossier.pdf
Hutton Report: http://www.guardian.co.uk/hutton/documents...1021218,00.html
Offical Hutton Site: http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/
Hutton Report (pdf): http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/conte...uttonreport.pdf

Feb 5, 2004, 09:35 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
tusaki Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (eburchelli,) Why don't you find some new news? Those sexy details have been debunked just this past week with an official inquiry into the BBC and the suicide of the person who brought the idea to light. There is no longer any justification for using this idea to put blame on Tony Blair.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Please get your facts straight. Hutton criticized the way the BBC dealt with the story and debunked the 'Government made false claims' criticism. but their intelligence agencies WERE pressured and their words were twisted by downing street. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Lord Hutton Report Conclusions) (v) Mr Alastair Campbell made it clear to Mr Scarlett on behalf of the Prime Minister that 10 Downing Street wanted the dossier to be worded to make as strong a case as possible in relation to the threat posed by Saddam Hussein’s WMD, and 10 Downing Street made written suggestions to Mr Scarlett as to changes in the wording of the draft dossier which would strengthen it. But Mr Campbell recognized, and told Mr Scarlett that 10 Downing Street recognized, that nothing should be stated in the dossier with which the intelligence community were not entirely happy. (vi) Mr Scarlett accepted some of the drafting suggestions made to him by 10 Downing Street but he only accepted those suggestions which were consistent with the intelligence known to the JIC and he rejected those suggestions which were not consistent with such intelligence and the dossier issued by the Government was approved by the JIC. (viii)The term “sexed-up” is a slang expression, the meaning of which lacks clarity in the context of the discussion of the dossier. It is capable of two different meanings. It could mean that the dossier was embellished with items of intelligence known or believed to be false or unreliable to make the case against Saddam Hussein stronger, or it could mean that whilst the intelligence contained in the dossier was believed to be reliable, the dossier was drafted in such a way as to make the case against Saddam Hussein as strong as the intelligence contained in it permitted. If the term is used in this latter sense, then because of the drafting suggestions made by 10 Downing Street for the purpose of making a strong case against Saddam Hussein, it could be said that the Government “sexed-up” the dossier. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Take the 45 minute claim, for example. Blair made it sound like Saddam could use the weapons against us in 45 minutes. While the original intelligence was: "Saddam can deploy chemical and biological munitions against his Shiite population within 45 minutes.". it became "Saddam can use WMD in 45 minutes".. which is true (based on the intelligence), but it implies something totally different. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sir Richard) "The original report referred to chemical and biological munitions and that was taken to mean battlefield weapons," Sir Richard, known in MI6 as "C", said. "I think what subsequently happened to the reporting (was) it was taken that 45 minutes applied to weapons of a larger range than just battlefield." Asked by counsel assisting Lord Hutton, James Dingemans, QC, whether he agreed misinterpretation placed on the '45 minute' intelligence, with the benefit of the claim had been given "undue prominence", he replied: "Given the hindsight, that's valid criticism." <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This is what I mean with sexing up or pressuring the intelligence agencies. And I believe this happens all the time. Downing Street: http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page271.asp September Dossier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier Guardian Articles: http://media.guardian.co.uk/iraqandthemedi...,883261,00.html September Report: http://www.number-10.gov.uk/files/pdf/iraqdossier.pdf Hutton Report: http://www.guardian.co.uk/hutton/documents...1021218,00.html Offical Hutton Site: http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/ Hutton Report (pdf): http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/conte...uttonreport.pdf Hope & Dream