[fogus]

Make up your mind. Either only the supernatural being can determine what is right or wrong or people are capable of doing this without checking with god. People can see that abuse/murder/incest/rape/lying or cheating are wrong without resorting to the bible. That is because they can see the harm it does to others. Now if you want to contend that two people of the same sex making a life long commitment to each other and living as a family causes harm then make that case. Otherwise resorting to your bible as an argument is no better than me finding some other holy document that says that it is a-okay. No one is saying that anyone must marry the same sex. The funny thing about this is that gays already have families. Nobody appears to be bothered by this. What bothers people is that they want the same treatment under the law as anyone else. Now perhaps this might help you. They are not asking for the same treatment under biblical law. They are asking for the same treatment under federal law. Now perhaps you are confused and think that federal law is biblical law. Well let me straiten you out. The constitution doesn’t mention the bible one time. In fact the only mention it makes of religion is to say that religion should have no say in government and government should have no say in religion. So if you are concerned about gays getting equal treatment under biblical law then you should be talking to your fellow church members about this and make sure that your rabbi, priest, witchdoctor, imam, monk, pastor, shaman, priestess, minister or whatever doesn’t marry gays in your church. Other than that, if they are not trying to stop you from marrying who you want and they are not hurting anyone then it is none of your god damned business.

What is wrong with people getting hurt? Don't give me an effect of people getting hurt, otherwise I will ask you what is wrong with that effect. Your problem is that you have no say in what is right and wrong, because you have nothing outside the natural world to appeal to. Nice try with the “I have a supernatural being in my pocket” thing. He/she/it hasn’t made the grade in my mind, since he/she/it has not answered the fundamental questions that every religion must have. The reason Christianity is widely accepted is that it can satisfy these questions: Where did we come from? What are we doing here? Where are we going?. Christianity has given answers to all of these, which is why it has more credibility than your “being in a pocket”. Also since Canada (where I live) and the USA were build on Biblical principles I think that the Bible should continue to play a leading role in the creation of laws. Just because religion isn't a part of the government doesn’t mean that laws can't be based on the Bible. It just means that the government can't go around telling churches what to do. And I think everyone who is thinking reasonably about this topic will see that our society will change dramatically if same sex marriage becomes legal everywhere. Churches will be pushed into accepting and carrying out same sex weddings. Just like private schools must now accept gay teachers (otherwise it goes against the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms) churches will also be forced to perform marriages. I can't prove this, so don't make arguments against me. I am content to say that time will tell.

Every country must have a founding world view. The world view of Christianity was the founding world view of both Canada and the USA. People who are for same sex marriage do not come from the Christian world view (they may think they do, but since the Bible speaks against homosexuality, they are wrong) they come from an atheistic world view. These people cannot answer the “what are we doing here” question to a degree where they can give outlines for the way we ought to live. Atheists are unable to defend moral beliefs objectively because they cannot answer the first question in this post without appealing to an effect.