[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: PDJane Back up. What I am saying is that the written record says that same-sex unions have been around for a long time. I am telling you that, according to the written record, the approximate percentages of gay and lesbians has remained pretty much constant over time. According to the written record, such unions were 'normal' in civilizations as disparate as the First Nations peoples of North America and the Asian culture of the Japanese.

Academicians are really arrogant SOBs. Since there is no possible way for any historian to have figured out the pre-historical ratio of homosexuals to heterosexuals (as explained above,) any claim made on the subject must, of neccessity, be a guess. An "educated" guess is still a guess.

:eek:

Even considering that, I have never read anywhere that "being a homosexual" was considered normal. Many pagan cultures treated exclusively homosexual persons with hostility and scorn.

I am telling you that homosexuality is no more a sin than left-handedness. It just is. Whether you wish to consider it a sin, of course, is your prerogative. It's a ridiculous and anachronistic approach, but still your prerogative!

I don't decide something is a sin just because I want it to be one. In fact, I don't claim to decide what is a sin or what is not.

However, that isn't the issue at hand. You cannot outlaw same gender sexual unions. It's simply not possible. You can shove it in the closet, you can (if you stretch your morals in the way that some of the evangelists do) murder these people, you can do whatever you wish........but you cannot stamp out homosexuality. Nor will murder solve the problem; the same number of homosexuals/lesbians will come in each generation, will ye, nill ye Nor can you equate homosexuality with murder. Murder, rapine, and mayhem are aberrations which wax and wane with the tolerance of the civilization involved......and the percentages of offenders differ from culture to culture. That simply is not so with homosexuality and lesbianism.

PDJane, it seems I didn't fully make my point. I no more expect that homosexuality will be erradicated than I expect for war, poverty, murder, etc. to be erradicated.

And, frankly, I feel that raising such a point is a dishonest and misleading debate tactic. No one has suggested that homosexuality be outlawed (although it would save us a lot of trouble.) Nor does anyone sensible think that the law can eliminate whatever evil is under discussion (obviously socialists/progressives are excluded from this category of persons.)

Homosexuality can be equated with murder as it is just one of a number of such acts that deny that human beings are not animals, but are above them. Which is why every justification of it stems from some supposed inability to chose who to have sex with. Defending such actions based on the primitive, canabilistic, tribal warfare, pagan dominated past isn't helpful. Neither is embracing the bad and calling it tolerance.