[Ken Carman]

Originally posted by Lava, Ken if you reprint your article here I'll play :) Lava

It's pretty long, but here goes... but first, a comment...

"It owes you what you put into it."

Absolutely. The question might be rephrased then: "Does Society (or do individuals too) have a good record of paying such bills? Do we need a bill collector?

Now, on the article...


First of all, let me welcome the posters at Volconvo to this column. If you enjoy open ended discussion from a wide variety of viewpoints by all means, I recommend Volconvo.

I was bouncing around volconvo.com when I hit a thread called, "Suicide legality." As often happens during discussions another issue exploded into the thread when I typed this...

" ...although I don't believe everything is societies fault I think, in some cases and perhaps many, society should take on some of the responsibility for it. Rather than looking at that and improving how we treat, respect and value people, it's far easier to just label someone who killed themselves, or attempt to, as sick and selfish. I'm sure that contributes to why so many who have tried, try again, and again, and..."

One of the regular posters, Lava, responded...

"Among suicidal folk I often see blaming others for one's problems. Although that may be valid as an un empowered child, once we're adults its up to us to work out how to resolve problems and do so - its not someone else's responsibility. But a whole lot of adults just don't think that way, we still want others to change for our happiness, or to solve our problems."

I responded...

"While I believe those who attempt suicide absolutely need to resolve their own problems, I don't believe that those around them and society should get off so easy. If we view those who attempt suicide, and those who actually commit suicide, as totally isolated individuals, and believe what we say and how we treat people should have no affect on them, then I would agree. Of course, you're right, it isn't easy. But I believe sometimes society and individuals go out of their way to make it hard, especially on some people."

Lava responded...

"I believe we are basically cry babies at heart. When things go wrong we look for social comfort, and we look to others to solve them for us. That works well enough as a child, but in an adult world its not an effective problem solving strategy. The effective strategy is to look for solutions and put them into effect... to say, what's the point of all this whining, it's getting me nowhere, and its no fun, so time to shut up and try work out how to improve my lot."


The topic started to expand to the point where I felt the best way to continue the discussion was to use "Inspection" to explain myself. The question is, "How much are we responsible for our own failure or success in life? Is it always a matter of working hard, picking ourselves up by our own bootstraps, or do others have some responsibility for our hopelessness and failure?"


Does society "owe us?" Do other individuals "owe us?"

I would say mostly, "No," but a very significant amount of "Yes." My guess is Lava would disagree.

No survey or study could ever quantify the rightness or wrongness of these questions. How do you take a survey on the very subjective opinion, "We are all cry babies at heart?" You can't. So my proposal is simple. After this column, through Volconvo or Political Puzzle, we share our experiences, personal stories and observations that have made us come to our conclusions on this topic. I will probably write at least one more column on this topic in about two weeks; tell a few more of my stories and make observations about what we have achieved through the art of discussion.

But back to the questions....

Does society "owe us?" Do other individuals "owe us?"

Individuals owe us in the sense that as a civilized society there are civilized ways to act and to treat each other. Every time we step over that line we risk destroying the hopes and dreams of others, and encourage others to do it to us. A fellow employee, for personal gain or sadistic pleasure, who could sabotage our work so that we get fired or accused of something we didn't do, does owe us something: honesty, fairness.

To accept a lesser standard is to sanction evil.

An employer who sees that we are working hard, doing our best for their company, owes us more than they owe to another lazy employee who doesn't do their work but sucks up to them.

To accept a lesser standard is to sanction evil.

Relatives owe us, as adults, the decency not interfering or and micro-managing our lives: to stop treating us as if we were five years old. Continued verbal or physical abuse is unacceptable. We shouldn't be living off of each other. Charity or is OK, but not to be expected. Loans are a form of charity, in a sense, and must be repaid. Treating a relative like a bank or a pawn shop is also unacceptable.

To accept a lesser standard is to sanction evil.


Now, here's the tough part. This is the one where I will probably get the most flack. Society needs, and must have, a social safety net. Not because it's owes us. Not because it's guilty of something, although sometimes a society can be so poorly structured so that it does "owe us." I will say more about that in my next column on this topic.

But when people live under bridges, have severe mental problems, or simply fall through the cracks, to toss them out on the street and let them fend for themselves is counter productive and dangerous to society itself. I'm not talking about giving them filet mignon, but basic sustenance. I'm not talking the Taj Mahal, but maybe a roach infested room with basic transportation. I especially am not talking about giving them money. I think that's where I join the Conservatives. Giving bums, slackers, the homeless, the disenfranchised, whatever label you wish to apply, money creates problems. Money is something they should earn to take them beyond they very basic level of existence I have suggested we should supply, if we must. It's to get them off the streets, out of our hair, and at least point them in the right direction.

One of the most basic fallacies is that we are each separate individuals, each responsible for only ourselves, that all we have to do when we fall is pick ourselves up and start to walk again. The reality is that there are plenty of people who out of indifference, greed, a desire to advance by stepping on others or just sadism, who are eager to trip us, prevent us from achieving and sometimes even just surviving; no matter how hard we try to pick ourselves up and walk again. Forty years ago in a quad in New York City, a lady was beaten and stabbed over and over again while neighbors closed their blinds and shut off their ears. If one person had decided to call or a few decided to step in New York City itself would have been better off. The city suffered from that incident far more than one murdered innocent. It became a symbol of all that was wrong with the city and people left in droves. In a smaller way I believe when we decide that those who haven't picked themselves up only have themselves to blame we only hurt ourselves. It's far too easy, and self-serving, to think those thoughts and do little to nothing, just like many did during those screams in the quad so many years ago. I'm sure many thought, "Well what the hell did she go out there for to begin with," and blame her, close the blinds, refuse to hear. We are only talking about a few degrees of difference here when we compare the attitudes of those who closed their blinds that night and those who close their hearts. It's the same attitude.

On 9/11 the city, like Phoenix, was reborn. Neighbor helped neighbor. Firemen went into towers about to collapse over and over again. Policemen stopped giving tickets and they too ran to the towers, not away. We work best as a collective, not as a society that says, "You are responsible for yourself, stop whining, cry baby."

That is the kind of "compassion" I feel is missing in our country and it so desperately needs. Not a free ride. Not being babied. But more of an opportunity to climb out of the deep holes that are dug either by fate, the cruelty of others and, yes, even our own stupid mistakes.

My first story...

A cousin I grew up with is one of the "unfortunates." Little schooling, five DUIs, attitude deluxe... I would call him the classic case of someone who should "pick himself up by his own boot straps," if only mentally and financially he had bootstraps. I saw a lot of what went into making what he is today. I saw a lot of physical and especially a lot of verbal abuse. Nothing he ever did was right, everything was because he was "stupid," a "moron," a "worthless piece of..." His brother put a gun up to his head and held him for at least half an hour threatening him and telling him how worthless he is, His parents claimed he was just being a "cry baby." When he was little my parents always use to comment that when he cried because his brother was beating on him, his parents would say," Stop being such a cry baby. The world's a hard place. Grow up."

He was four.

Even back then, when he got into his teens, my father said, "I really like him, but after all that's happened I think it's probably too late." He has been treated that way all his life by his family. When he got older his father and mother, anal retentive to the extreme, kept telling him to "Straighten your ass out... go in the armed forces." Being anal retentive himself... never guess what armed forces turned him into? Yup, anal to the extreme. According to my father he spent most of those years in the brig. He was pushed out. Now, he can't keep a job, and just like the rest of his family tells everyone else what's wrong with them, tells everyone else how to run their lives, but can't take an ounce of criticism. He borrows money every time he can, money that disappears... somewhere. I think most of you can figure that one out.

This is a classic case of a man who should pick "himself up by his own bootstraps." But after half a century of repeating the same patterns over and over, reinforced by his parents, telling him to stop being a "cry baby" will solve nothing. What he needs in not more loans, government money or a bridge to live under. What he really needs is his own personal, caring yet tough, counselor that will help him beyond this pattern and into a slightly better future. It would take someone with the professional training and the right mix between compassion and tough love. But instead we just let him drift around in society hurting himself and others.

This is only one of many stories I have to tell, stories that underline the fact that we are not isolated individuals and only responsible for ourselves. Many of these true stories magnify that, even with the best of efforts, some of us will fail not because of some fault in ourselves but because of people who continue to kick you down to the ground while telling you to stop being a "cry baby." It is our interconnectedness that can light up the darkness just a little more. It is our tendency to turn our backs on these problems that only returns to bite us.


Further discussion regarding this issue can be found here under the comments section below this column or here, or at the specially created thread at Volconvo.