[PatrickHenry]

Originally posted by orgaelin,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (orgaelin,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I honestly suspect that you have either not the capacity to recognise the obvious, or you are so determined to argue (Hence "Let's argue") that you refuse to waste your time on the pointless exercises of thought and reason.[/b]

No need to insult; I'll argue without it. I rarely argue in the Religion and Philosophy Forum for the simple reason that proofs, if available, are always contestable and the ground seems to shift. There is no "winning" a debate here. It's more of a discussion than an argument. However, I assure you that I am a man who thinks and reasons well, even if the fruit is sometimes "pointless".

Originally posted by orgaelin,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (orgaelin,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>At the very least, you should be able to recognise what a lie sounds like. When someone makes something up there is always a certain lack of detail, a general vagueness about everything. There were so many contributing arguments in my post for just the two points that when I finally posted it, it looked like the longest post this forum had ever seen![/b]

You haven't seen long unless you have seen Osborn, Young or even me sometimes! And often people make up lengthy stories. Why? Various reasons: some find them entertaining, some are able to bring congruency to theri views by so doing, some are plain evil and hateful. Why do the creators of computer viruses act so hatefully? Go figure...But just because you have lengthy views contrary to scripture does not make you correct. Surely you can see this is a fallacy...

Originally posted by orgaelin, am I just assuming you're Catholic?

Faulty assumption. I don't follow the Catholic teachings or defend them. They must do so without my effort.

Originally posted by orgaelin, How about Bethany and Magdalene being the same woman? That she's not a prostitute? That Jesus was of the seed of David?

Mary of Bethany was Lazarus' sister, Mary of Magdala was another of the New Testament Marys. Not a prostitute that I can tell, but Jesus wouldn't have cared about her past. He cared about her soul...

Originally posted by orgaelin, Just some examples. None of these need references, especially for a man of your wisdom. You know full well the bible says that Jesus is genetically descended from David... but of course, you don't like to admit that because that kinda creates a contradictory problem for you... How in the name of God can Jesus be descended from David but not be the product of an ordinary sexual encounter between his parents? If his male parent was the holy ghost, then Joseph's genetic descendency from David would be irrelevant!

You seem to be patronizing me again; no need for that. I am friendly. the problem you pose isn't difficult or contradictory in any way. http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabb...tri_descent.htm

Judaism introduced matrilineal descent somewhere in the period of the Second Temple and the Roman occupation according to Prof. Shaye Cohen, now at Harvard, and he wrote an historical review of the change in "Conservative Judaism" among other journals. His presentation was historical and not intended to effect changes in Jewish law as it affects us today.

Mary was descended from David. I believe this accounts for the seeming discrepancy between the genealogies. I believe that Mary's descent line is the one in Matthew.

Originally posted by orgaelin, Also, in Matthew (13:55) it says "Is this not the carpenter's son?". In Luke (2:27), Joseph and Mary are clearly referred to as Jesus' parents. There's some references for you!

Sure, the community viewed Jesus as Joseph and Mary's boy. They were his parents. Nobody ever hear of a stepfather referred to as a parent?

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don't babble about references and ignore the arguments.[/quote]
Sorry, dude. References are the stuff of debate. Ya gotta back up what you say or it's just opinion...
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Is it nice having references? I'll give you more, for all the claims I made in the first post. But when I do (it'll take me a while) what are you going to say then? That I'm right? (I doubt it) Or that I'm wrong? But if you say that I am wrong, I will want references to back up your claims.
Half brothers! Just listen to yourself!
[/quote]Why anticipate my responses? We aren't enemies, just debaters with different points of view. What is wrong with the half brothers reference? I don't understand your argument. As to the sisters: no argument. I am not Catholic. And Jesus mother obviously gave birth to natural children as well as the offspring of the Holy Spirit, according to my simple reading of scripture.