View Single Post
Old Sep 11, 2004, 07:15 pm   #11 (permalink) (top)
ComradeRed
Igneous Magma
 
Posts: 257
Quote:
Red, the X system which we are under consists of Karl Marx's policies. So if X is capitalism. It's Marxist capitalism. Very simple logic, son. Don't bust a brain cell.
That's incorrect logic. It is the stealing concept fallacy, you deny that Marx was the man who coined the word capitalism and what he meant it to be. You are perverting it into something else.

Quote:
You can try to put the blame on somebody else, but it holds no weight. This system has fulfilled the core planks of the Communist Manifesto.
You assume that communism is exactly what Marx said the reforms the working class demanded. The two are not the same. The latter was for the benefit of the working class, the former was the stage after the collapse of capitalism.

Quote:
Marx was a liberal.
No, Marx was a leftist.

Quote:
The income tax didn't better the conditions of the working man.
I had to look up the exact quote, lookey here:
Quote:
The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralize all instruments of production in the hands of the state, i.e., of the proletariat organized as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible.

Of course, in the beginning, this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads on the rights of property, and on the conditions of bourgeois production; by means of measures, therefore, which appear economically insufficient and untenable, but which, in the course of the movement, outstrip themselves, necessitate further inroads upon the old social order, and are unavoidable as a means of entirely revolutionizing the mode of production.

These measures will, of course, be different in different countries.

Nevertheless, in most advanced countries, the following will be pretty generally applicable.

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal obligation of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc.

When, in the course of development, class distinctions have disappeared, and all production has been concentrated in the hands of a vast association of the whole nation, the public power will lose its political character. Political power, properly so called, is merely the organized power of one class for oppressing another. If the proletariat during its contest with the bourgeoisie is compelled, by the force of circumstances, to organize itself as a class; if, by means of a revolution, it makes itself the ruling class, and, as such, sweeps away by force the old conditions of production, then it will, along with these conditions, have swept away the conditions for the existence of class antagonisms and of classes generally, and will thereby have abolished its own supremacy as a class.
You see, Marx said the income tax should be used to even out the class distinctions. You misinterpret what he said and misuse it.

Quote:
The word sucker comes to mind.
Yeah, I know the feeling.

Quote:
Not only are you not tired of paying Microsoft's, Pepsi's, and Frito-Lay's corporate taxes, but you're letting your emotions deceive you. You like being exploited. You like being a slave.
And only "you" can "set me free"? I am sick of only two options of what to drink or to eat, and I am sick of you making these leaps of logic which asserts things which I have not even spoke of.

How am I being exploited? I don't even work! You have no clue what you are talking about, you consistantly steal Marx's ideas and completely deny its roots. That is the "stolen concept fallacy".
ComradeRed is offline   Reply With Quote