[grandpa]

Quote by: The Black Ghost Nothing is downplayed, but it is not to be exxagerated either. It is also not to be placed on the heads of the wrong people. To say we are the ones ultimately responsible for the deaths caused by terrorists is ridiculous. Using a transitive property of blame is something done by bad politicians and criminals. You say--well if (A)--Iraq Invasion---hadn't happened, then (B)--many Iraqi deaths---wouldnt have occured. All this without taking notice of (C)---Iraqi deaths almost entirely at the hands of terrorists and extremists.

If this were meant to be ironic, maybe it would make sense. The thing is, -- and hopefully you'll at least admit this much -- even if the US government doesn't have the best interests at heart (which I think is the case, but just for the sake of argument), it would still feel licensed to do virtually anything it wants. After all, we did support future Islamic terrorists like Osama bin Laden, and have supported dictators like Saddam Hussein. So before you liken my reasoning to that of a "bad politician or criminal," consider what the US government has done in fact, whatever its reasons. And, by the way, the reasoning is accurate anyway. If the invasion hadn't occurred, many Iraqi deaths would have certainly been prevented, and many terrorists and extremists wouldn't have run amok in Iraq. And if they eventually had, that's not necessarily our business anyway, just like Saddam Hussein having WMD's wouldn't have really been a valid excuse to invade. Plenty of countries have WMD's that they've threatened to use in self-defense. The US is in fact the only country to have actually done so, and in areas densely populated by civilians (Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Plus, as I mentioned, the US supported Saddam even after it was known that he had gassed Kurds. But, if people believe in an imaginary man in the sky, I guess they can believe in anything. Yes, our policies are somehow moral simply because they are ours. If anyone does something similar to what we do but are not "us," then we can more easily consider them immoral. This "white man's burden"-style thinking is clearly dangerous, and I urge any readers not to make a career of it.

Quote by: The Black Ghost If we choose to do nothing in every situation becase we are afraid of this transitive property where our actions will in some way cause some pain because of someone else---nothing changes--the old regime stays the same. Dictators are free to rule their worlds, expand their power. The people there can die slowly, live terrible and meaningless lives, live in fear. It wont make headline news--in fact--it wont make news at all. Somewhere, people have to choose the difference between a pointless, life in fear... or the chance of freedom. Some people--like those that lived under the 1984-esque regime of Saddam--could not fight back... because the power controlling them was too great. Rebellions were crushed time and again, countless crimes against humanity committed and allowed to happen under the noses of the world--while we have to sit and watch behind a sea of red tape.

I'll have to hold my applause to your little speech, I'm afraid.

Depsite what you say, not supporting thugs, terrorists and coups is not necessarily "doing nothing in every situation." For example, I think political asylum is a perfectly valid concept. But, if I remember correctly, the US actually treats such people rather badly, and even charges fees for political asylum. It's just another example of us not being heroes, but sons of bitches.

Not only has this war been considered almost pointless, except for profits inside our militarized global economy, but it's left the country largely destroyed and the people living in even greater fear than they had been before, but the economic cost has been great for Iraqis, as well as for us. And much of Iraq, like much of the United States, is in the private domain of a handful of self-proclaimed experts in the name of "government by the people." This is nothing but one of the greatest, authentic conspiracies of all time.

Quote by: The Black Ghost Maybe we shouldnt stick our nose into someone elses door or listen to someone elses cry for help--but in the end, apathy is death.

Blowing up someone's house is a little different from "sticking our nose into someone else's door," and I don't think too many Iraqis actually wanted their country to be invaded, their infrastructure destroyed, and everything to be de-stabilized. Asking to be invaded is pretty much like asking for a death warrant. In fact, I'd say that any Iraqis who wanted something like this to happen would have to have been incredibly stupid, incredibly twisted, or both.

Grandpa h.