[Rogue Cardinal]

This is not to say that all Jewish people rejected the claims of Jesus. Far from that being the case, all the first followers of Jesus were Jews. In fact, the rabbis of that time period and afterwards were well aware of the many Messianic prophecies which Christians claimed were fulfilled in Jesus. So for instance, although the Talmudic rabbis concurred that Isaiah 53 was a prediction of the Messiah, by medieval times the pressure from those who applied this prophecy to Jesus was so great that Rashi, that greatest medieval Biblical scholar, reinterpreted the chapter and said it referred to the nation of Israel. This interpretation is maintained today by many Jewish scholars, though it only dates back to the Middle Ages.

Let me start by saying that I appreciate you posting this. Isaiah 53 is GOOD reading. I had not read that before. Many thanks. Something for me to think about.

What, then, are some of the credentials of the Messiah? Only a few can be listed below; there are many others. All of these passages were recognized by the early rabbis as referring to the Messiah: Messiah was to be born at Bethlehem: Micah 5:1

Alright.....the good stuff. I will use the New testament to discuss this stuff as it serves me well. I'd like to point out though that Micah doesn't say this in 5:1.....it's actually in 5:2.

I would also point out that if you keep reading Micah 5......you will find that JEsus did NONE of the things that were promised in this prophecy other than seemingly be born in Bethleham. For example by the time you get to Micah 5:10......well The Messiah would be like a military leader....which is part of what the Jews thought the Messiah would be. So Jesus only fits a PART of this prophesy.

The New testament handles this matter in an interesting way.
Matthew starts at Bethlaham. Right at the birth. Now what I find odd is WHY they are even there. They are after all from Nazareth.....so over to Luke we must go to find the answer. Let's ssee what he says.

Luke 2:1-4
"In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman World. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlaham to the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David."

What I find interesting about this bold part is that it doesn't make ANY sense. David lived 1,000 years BEFORE Joseph. It doesn't even make sense at all historically to have to answer to a census in this fashion. It appears to me that the writers are trying to place Jesus there while fudging on the details. Why would you go and answer a census because of a 1,000 year dead relative? ODD

Messiah would be from the tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10

No argument here. That's what I said in my OP. But I will take a slant on this in a bit.

Messiah would present himself by riding on an ass: Zechariah 9:9

The real issue with this....is that when the Messiah comes he will unite the kingdoms of Israel. It's easy to snatch a verse out of a chapter, but is it right to ignore the rest of the words? This is HUGE in why the Jews don't think that Jesus was the Messiah. When Jesus rode the donkey into the city....he didn't unite the Kingdoms of Isreal. All he did was ride a donkey. When the Messiah came it was going to at that second bring peace.....and it didn't.

Zechariah 9:10 (aka the next line)
"I will take away the chariots from Ephraim and the war-horses from Jerusalem, and the battle bow will be broken. He will proclaim peace to all nations. His rule will extend from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the Earth."

According to the prophesy THIS should have already happened if Jesus was the messiah.

Messiah would be tortured to death: Psalm 22

This makes no sense at all. Psalm 22 is a prayer that David wrote. It was QUOTED supposedly by Jesus on the Cross.....it's NOT prophesy at all.

PLEASE explain how this is a depiction of the Messiah suffering. To suggest it makes no sense.

Messiah would arrive before the destruction of the Second Temple: Daniel 9:24-27

Yeah but he was supposed to make the third temple.....Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). didnt' quite do that did he?

Messiah's life would match a particular description, including suffering, silence at his arrest and trial, death and burial in a rich man's tomb, and resurrection: Isaiah 52:13-53:12

I am going to have to spend more time on this one. By far the BEST thing any Christian has ever offered up to me. Truly cool.

In detail as to lineage, birthplace, time, and lifestyle, Jesus matched the Messianic expectations of the Hebrew Scriptures. The record of this fulfillment is to be found in the pages of the New Testament. But several other factors combine to further substantiate the Messiahship of Jesus.

Here is a big misstep and I alluded to this earlier as something I would address later....now is the time.

With details to lineage the New testament makes ABSURD claims that do no favors to prop Jesus up as the Messiah. Matthew opens up wtih the lineage of Jesus, but he traces it through Joseph. This is HIGHLY illogical. Joseph is of the line of David according to Luke.....but what the hell does THAT have to do with JEsus? The Father of Jesus is GOD. The mother of Jesus is Mary. Neither are of the line of David.

The only other account of the lineage is the end of the third chapter of Luke. At this point we must note. that Luke does the EXACT same thing as Matthew. He traces Jesus through Joseph?!?! That doesn't make any sense at all. But what's worse is that EVERY name on this list is entirely different than the account in Matthew.

So we have two lineages.....traced through a nonblood relative.....not one name matches up. It would appear that this is a desperation attempt to justify Jesus as a Messiah based on lineage but according to what is IN the New Testament....it's a farce. Whom should we believe? Matthew or Luke?

Furthermore as I pointed out there is a mistranslation. The Jewish tradition says that the Messiah will not be the SON of God....but the son of two humans. Reference "alma"