[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Sonart Freud deserves great credit for essentially discovering the field of psycho-analysis, but like many early explorers, many of his conclusions have been discredited and revised over the ensuing generations. But like I said, an irrational fear of anything isn't particularly healthy and I'm unclear how someone like myself, who owns a gun and enjoys shooting, has an irrational fear of guns.

It's "irrational" that you fear them in the hands of others, hypocritical as well. But beyond that, I generally feel it's a subversive movement Hell bent on destroying every last vestige of our Constitutional limitations.

Quote by: Sonart Nah, once again your slavish sycophancy to whatever Milton says betrays your common sense... in the most gun violent civilized nation on earth, a respectable fear of guns is entirely rational.

Indeed, if used improperly, just like the automobile, or a puddle of water, it can be dangerous. Life on Earth is inherently dangerous to those ignorant of the complexities of modern society, or self preservation.

Quote by: Sonart Or are you saying you' wouldn't feel any fear looking down the barrel of a gun?

I've discussed this here before. I have been shot ( 12 gauge shot gun ), I have been robbed at gunpoint, I have been shot at on at least three other occasions that I can recall.


I live in the ghetto, remember.

Quote by: Sonart Milton, Milton, Milton... your disingenuous need to create false premises just oozes out of you, doesn't it. I have stated on many occasions that guns served a valuable role in the first half of this country's existance, helping to tame the vast wilderness that once comprised 90% of what would become the U.S..

Yes, that's the dangerous reality present in classic philosphy that is absent in modern philosophy. I'm somehow just supoosed to trust everybody, and things will just turn out well.

Quote by: Sonart But certainly in the second half of the last century... with America's transition to a coast to coast urban/suburban industrialized society and the increased firepower of modern weapons... , yes, absolutely, firearms are the pet tiger that's grown far, far to big and dangerous to be kept any longer as a family pet.

That did little to alleviate the true dangers inherent in living in a modern society.

Quote by: Sonart Well, with 300 million well armed Americans making this the most murderous civilized nation on earth, a little idiot proofing is well called for.

Not when you classify me among the idiots.

Quote by: Sonart But then, you're the libertarian who conveniently forgets the incredible misery the excesses of unbridled capitalist 'liberty' has visited on Americans who weren't lucky enough to be Ayn Randian alpha dogs.

Well, I dispute that I am an alpha dog, though I did very well for myself. Mostly, people feared my big, scary, older brother ( not Osborn ), but to be sure, I stand my ground at all times. I have even been known to stand up for the little guy, and play the role of anti-bully on many occasions.


As far as the suffering goes, nobody knows more than my recent immigrant Russian Grandfather about the excesses, and not having access to those riches.


The truth is, that you think the suffering will be tolerable if shared, but I contend that that is no right to shared misery.

Quote by: Sonart Within the bounds of the Constitution, you do NOT have an individual right to own guns. Get over it.

I disagree, as do many others. ( Though I will admit that Stephen Colberts observation this evening that the Second Ammendment is the only amendment to include the word regulate, that you do have a tiny reality on which to base your opinion, I still think your completely wrong. )


The qualification was merely a qualification to convey that a "Free State" requires saccrifice, and diligence, and a means to defend that liberty.

Quote by: Sonart LOLOL!! YOU accuse ME of agenda driven behavior.

Well, what is my agenda? Do tell.

Quote by: Sonart Hey, when people I voted for ran the government, things were great.

For you personally. Not for me pally.

Quote by: Sonart When conservatives I didn't vote for ran Washington for the last 8 years, things went to sh!t. I'm sure Ron Paul would cheerfully take us all back to the 18th century, but alas, the world has moved into the 21st.

I won't dent that, except that inclusion of Ron Paul. He shares none of the policy makers views, despite the Republican moniker on his jacket.

Quote by: Sonart So there was no implication at all. Gosh, Milton, I'm so sorry I misjudged your intent.

It's valid.

Quote by: Sonart A lovely intention, Milton, except that it has accomplished the complete opposite, making Americans considerably less safe and our country a far more deadly, dangerous place to live.

Not a valid argument to us still, no matter how many times you make it.

Quote by: Sonart What will it take for you to see that? In theory, Communism was supposed to create a workers utopia, a benefit to all mankind... alas, it's grand intentions were overtaken by the gritty reality of human nature. Likewise your dreamy ideological good intentions have long since been overwhelmed by the grim reality of human nature.

So since human nature must be accounted for, and human nature is basically violent, I should relinquish my only real protection from others who would initiate force?


That's flawed reasoning there bucko.