My responses may be a little smaller, I have company over (for a few days) and can't put as much time into this, though I am trying.
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Quote by: Gods_Mercenary  In that case, humans are unnatural everywhere besides ethiopia, or whereever the hell we originated from. Most animals in any part of the world once migrated to where they are now. I have no idea if deer are happy, never asked one. And if you're not suggesting anti-hunting laws, then you're leaving these animals to what you beleive to be immoral slaughter. Either killing deer is morrally abhorrent and should be stopped or it's natural and even desirable. Prove natural predators would kill less deer. Wolves are capable of overhunting deer populations, while humans are limited by hunting licenses. links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0022-2372(199802)79%3A1%3C227%3ASKOWDB%3E2.0.CO%3B2-T -
Hunting in general is trying to do nothing besides entertain and provide food, the state may see it as a way to keep deer at healthy levels, but nbody goes out and randomly slaughters deer to keep them off land, I generally like watching them anyway. You use emotion as well (deer jumping for joy at being eaten). Putting something in shock to the point where it self-anesthasizes is not humane, and the same affect is often acheived with a bullet in human cases. I see no reason to use hunting dogs anyway, why put two animals at risk when you have a perfectly good rifle. How do you know there are more vegetarians? And I doubt everyone will give up hunting. |
People are pretty much unnatural everywhere (maybe not the middle east though...).
The un-needed killing of deer is bad, the needed is not.
Wow, one bit if evidence, in one case, in one part of a state. Why are you focussing on wolves, while cougars are the biggest predator of deer? Hunting licenses do not keep hunters from overhunting. What do you think happened to cougars, wolves, bears, etc., maybe they just vanished into thin air. Wrong, they were overhunted, and still are today, even though the populations of cougars and wolves are critical in most areas.
Wrong, I have heard many reports of people hutning animals just for fun, nothing else. What do you think those 20+ million squirrels and 20+ millions doves that are hunted for, for a supper, wrong. What about sport hunting, which still occurs often with deer? Those are undebately stupid practices that are un-needed.
Many people use hunting dogs, if you noticed. The fact is, natural predators, when you average it out (and with cougars being their top natural predator), probably kill deer equally as humanely as hunting or more humanely.
Why do you think Burger King now has a veggie burger? Why do you think there are more vegetarian restaurants? Why do you think animal rights movements, like PETA, are gaining momentum against factory farms? More vegetarians, simple.
Not everyone, but it is decling and there are no indications that it will stop.
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Quote by: The Bacon Guy Impossible to guarantee.
Not how the legal system works. You don’t throw someone in jail simply because they can’t prove that they weren’t doing anything wrong.
Hunters could do that. I never said they necessarily would without a little help or incentive, but they definitely could.
Pure speculation.
Your objection to hunters was that they would hunt deer to the point where they wouldn't need to come onto out land. If natural predators will hunt deer to the point that they won't need to come onto our property, they obviously will be killing as many or more deer than the hunters would.
Why would a deer wander into potential danger to find food if its own habitat is able to support it?
Depends on your point of view.
Make the predators a protected species then.
Because the line is purely based on emotion.
The point is that incorporating food-acquisition into one’s leisure time absolutely is time efficient. Instead of spending one hour shopping and ten hours of leisure time, a hunter can spend ten hours of leisure time and still get his food.
Or people that like meat, find hunting to be more cost and time efficient than buying lentils, etc.
How is it a problem to have deer wandering round human areas? Other than the issues mentioned, how about all the fatal road accidents than are caused by deer?
That’s lovely, but like I said, people shouldn’t be obligated to conform to your arbitrary standards of selflessness any more than you should be forced to conform to theirs.
That’s not an argument.
Do you think a room of your house is worth the lives of a few hundred wasps? |
Correct, but most cases could be prevented, couldn't they, unless someone owns a mansion and can't go into every room often? There are also sprays which you can buy that just "put the wasps to sleep for a little" and then they could be safely transferred outside, with no dead wasps. Problem solved.
Yep, but people can push all they want for it to get banned, and if it does, tough for the hunters whose cases were not as valid.
Do you have any sources to back your claim up? Because I don't see how the current population of hunters could, and with the decline of hunting, I don't think a even smaller group of hunters has a chance.
It is not fact, that I will agree, but it is a well thought out eduacated guess on what people will do, given past behaviors.
Don't put words in my mouth please. I said hunting would try to keep the population at levels in which the deer would rarely come onto our property, and the wolves/cougars would keep them from needing to go onto our property, and from not starving.
And there is potential danger from wandering in the woods too. City or town deer actually are so used of people and cars they let you pet them. They can adapt well to other enviroments. And they are not just going to abandon their natural places since humans arrived, unelss they are forced to.
How does it depend on my opinion? It is a fact, and I can give cases to show you.
I don't think hunters would follow those laws, nor would they be implied. Cases with natural predators and hunters together don't end well, unless the hunters are actually eduacated.
It takes more time, which was my point. 30 minutes of shopping is more time efficient then 10 hours of hunting. That is just true.
Agreed, but it doesn't mean my opinion is not more sharing or less selfish then their's. Also, it doesn't mean my opinion is not better then their's.
Spray them with the calming spray, move 'em outside, problem solved.