[Maryjane]

Q) What is it about pseudo sciencetist and religions folks?
A) They both have a negative attitude to skepticism.

This comment shows that your grasp of OOBEs (out of body experiences) is somewhat lacking.

Yup. I detect attitude.

A

s for lucid dreams being caused by extreme duress... I have no idea what you mean.

You had studied this for 25 years? Apparently you missed talking to people who lost loved ones. They have lucid dreams all the time. I've had a few myself. As much as I'd like to believe they are spirits communicating, they are not. I suspected my husband death was not caused by his illness. I felt a lot of guilt about leaving him alone against my better judgement. I had a very lucid dream he came to me asking why he had to die. I could have sworn he was real. What woke me was tears and uncontrollable sobbing. It wasn't until a month later I found out from the ER nurse that his death was an accidental over dose. I knew I should have stayed with him but I didn't want to face the guilt so I dreamed him up. It would be so soothing to know he wasn't upset with me but I've learned to deal with the emotion of regret instead of guilt. Now I don't have those kinds of dreams anymore. That's my anecdotal experience....

There are two distinct types of OOBE. The NDE (near death experience) and the non-NDE OOBE.

I questioned the afterlife and researched as much as I could find about it. No one would like to believe more than I .I poured over a lot of this stuff when I was first widowed. You aren't telling me anything I haven't already heard. Why do I dismiss it? Because I've critically thought about it. It has nothing to do with my being an atheist.

I accept that the NDE usually occurs under physical duress. That it is a way of helping the consciousness deal with an extremely traumatic and painful condition or... is a natural occurrence when the physical body "dies". So, the heart stops beating - an NDE occurs. The person describes leaving their physical body and hovering above it; they feel calm and experience no pain.

That is the BRAIN's way of dealing with it. Let's look to science for a moment. You do know what the heart's function is right? It pumps oxygen to all the cells in the body. A lack of oxygenated blood to the brain is called cerebral hypoxia.

What is Cerebral Hypoxia? Cerebral hypoxia refers to a condition in which there is a decrease of oxygen supply to the brain even though there is adequate blood flow. Drowning, strangling, choking, suffocation, cardiac arrest, head trauma, carbon monoxide poisoning, and complications of general anesthesia can create conditions that can lead to cerebral hypoxia. Symptoms of mild cerebral hypoxia include inattentiveness, poor judgment, memory loss, and a decrease in motor coordination. Brain cells are extremely sensitive to oxygen deprivation and can begin to die within five minutes after oxygen supply has been cut off. When hypoxia lasts for longer periods of time, it can cause coma, seizures, and even brain death. In brain death, there is no measurable activity in the brain, although cardiovascular function is preserved. Life support is required for respiration. Is there any treatment? Treatment depends on the underlying cause of the hypoxia, but basic life-support systems have to be put in place: mechanical ventilation to secure the airway; fluids, blood products, or medications to support blood pressure and heart rate; and medications to suppress seizures. What is the prognosis? Recovery depends on how long the brain has been deprived of oxygen and how much brain damage has occurred, although carbon monoxide poisoning can cause brain damage days to weeks after the event. Most people who make a full recovery have only been briefly unconscious. The longer someone is unconscious, the higher the chances of death or brain death and the lower the chances of a meaningful recovery. During recovery, psychological and neurological abnormalities such as amnesia, personality regression, hallucinations, memory loss, and muscle spasms and twitches may appear, persist, and then resolve.

The heart starts beating again and this same person describes their consciousness re-entering the physical body. Common situations being medical operations; car accidents; heart attacks; and general severe accidents or ill-health. The person has no control over their NDE.

Near death experiences can be explained. They are the chemicals in your body going haywire and the lack of oxygen. You'd be surprised how a minute drop in body chemistry can set the entire system out of wack. Of course they have no control. It's like when some people have blood drawn and they pass out. As much as they want to stay awake, their mind has other ideas.

OOBES, on the other hand are different. They can occur spontaneously, usually under no duress, or... can be consciously induced.

Just as you said usually, I said typically. Pardon me, but I was speaking about the anecdotal evidence being given in the thread. I'll be happy to give other examples of the second situation... the one you are speaking about now.

Ever drive a vehicle, get to a destination only to wonder, How did I get here? (that damn brain of yours going off on it's own again!)
Again, mind over matter.

Then there is the physical safety valve. My mother, when she gave birth to me and my two brothers - each time the pain of giving birth reached its climax, she found herself out of her body and looking down at the birth procedure. She wasn't dying. This was simply a way of dealing with the extreme pain because out of your physical body, you feel calm and are at peace.

More anecdotals...Contractions wax and wane. Deep breathing exercises accomplish the same thing. Your mind is concentrating on the breathing and not the pain. BTW..that was a duress situation.


Are you going to introduce something new? I thought this thread was about spirits, ghosts, and demons?

Cerebral Hypoxia Information Page: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS)