[Zhavric]

Helio, on the off chance you're tired of having me tear your arguments in half over my knee and actually want to debate me...

Quote by: HelioPrime Most of the above are features of any organized group.

Cool. Name 3. Be sure to explain how, specifically, they use the techniques above.

I've been to several retreats and worked for the confirmation program at St. James here in CT. The programs divided the students into little workgroups, with two guides to each group, by the end of the weekly program each group had gone through a range of topics and learning.

And no doubt been exposed to several of the techniques listed. Your point?

At the end of the program the question was asked do you really want to be confirmed and take your place as a catholic.

What a ridiculous question to ask a teen? Why don't they ask it honestly: "Please say yes to this thing we want you to do or we'll be really upset with you and your family will be really mad at you. The only way to avoid guilt is to say yes. So say yes. Or else."

This is just how we brought up large groups of kids. Is it brainwashing?

Yup. The sad thing is that you've lost the ability to recognize it for what it is. That's the beauty of it. From the inside looking out, you're just sharing honest information and giving someone a choice. For the rest of us who are intellectually honest, we see that the choice part is really an illusion... that kids going to confirmation camp (nice ring to that...) are being VERY subtely, yet very sternly preasured to make a yes decision.

Religion is instructed and by the fact alone it seems its declared brainwashing.

You're being disingenuous because you're missing the part where kids as young as 3 or 4 are being told ridiculous claims that they're too young to recognize at ridiculous. You can't point to something in their teens as a "free choice" when the damage was done in their formative years. Even if you take me off ignore, I predict you won't be able to adequately address this issue. You never really talk about the things that kill your argument.

I guess public schools, AA, and every other support group is also brainwashing then as well.

Nope. You're wrong. You're just pulling a Fonceai and trying to change the definition of brainwashing to win your argument. I'm not going to stand for nonsense like that and neither should anyone else.

Will someone kindly quote my entire post for the benefit of Helio? He really needs to read this.

Thanks.