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Wow, spend a day working and look what happens. Congratulations, Mathew, you have a hit.

Quote by: christianmathew Yes, we are talking about the same god. He did kill innocent women and children, multiple times, to the egyptians, to Job, and a few others. God did not, however, tell his people to do the crusades, though he has told them to kill people before.

Well that's certainly faint praise... God has instructed his people to commit horrendous, brutal genocides, but it's ok, at least the Crusades weren't His idea.

Quote by: christianmathew He is not a trickster, you are just slightly warping his ideas. But then again, you don't believe in gods, so you think your covered.

True, I don't have to worry about gods, but I still live in the same dangerous world as everyone else.

Quote by: christianmathew I may have a cruel god in your eyes, but he is kind and loving in my eyes. He gives us all a chance, even your 13 year old girl, doesn't he?

And here we are... reason number **mumblemumble** why I find the concept of God ridiculous. If God is the all knowing, all powerful creator of everything... why would He bother?

Why on earth would God require His "Children" to make a choice in which the wrong answer demands ultimate suffering for all eternity... a choice so difficult that 70% of all humans -- if not more -- fail? That's a lot of horrific suffering for a "Kind and Loving God". It's not like He's just damning bad people... almost every faith on earth teaches pretty much the same basic rules... treat others as you would have them treat you, love your God or spiritual teacher, don't lie, don't steal, don't murder, don't commit adultery, honor your parents, etc.

Why even put himself in the equation? If God is the all knowing, all powerful creator of everything, why not let his creations go about being what he created. He doesn't require other animals to beleive in Him, does he? Why not simply require humans to conduct themselves as the best Homo Sapiens they can be, contributing and working harmoniously and morally within their society.

And parent or ruler with God's record of causing unimaginable suffering in such a large percentage of his own people would be considered a monster!

Quote by: christianmathew I may quote the bible from time to time, but I don't expect it to impress you.

I'm sure I won't let you down.

Quote by: christianmathew Because it (the Crusades) was wrong, disgusting, and totally selfish, unlike what god would have wanted.

But this, on the other hand, was just and fair?

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." -- Joshua 6:21 1

"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote them from Kadesh-barnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon." -- Joshua 10:40-41 1

Quote by: christianmathew The crusade is relatively consistent, except the Old Testament was of God's will.

That's certainly convenient.

Quote by: christianmathew I do believe God can see into the future, but I don't believe his decisions are predetermined, because of free will, which you seem to think contradicts.

It does contradict. How can one see into a future that has yet to be determined by the whims of free will?

Boy, God certainly DOES work in mysterious ways.

Quote by: Butterbut I beleive in God becuase of what he has done in my life. If that is not eveidence, then I don't know what is.

I've heard folks say the same thing about Buddha.

What's that proof of?

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