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Quote by: Morality Games  These are all qualifying aspects of a sapient being (humans are sapient beings, which is why we are called homo sapiens), so saying they aren't what makes humans human is senseless |
Human beings are sapient when they reach a particular level of maturity but sapience is not what defines a human being.
By the way, sapien is a reference to the greek sapientia which is a bow to the writers and sages who were the first to begin the science of taxonomy.
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Quote by: Morality Games This is what I mean when I say your logic and metaphysics are faulty, because "more or less" is in a completely different sphere of logic from 'non-existent' and 'existent'. This fact evidences nothing in your favor. 'More or less' is always existent (and therefore relevent), whereas 'non-existent' and 'existent' may exist or they may not. In the case of fetuses, it is always not, at least not as sapient beings (humans). |
You seem to believe that we do not exist until we hit the air. Unborns exist, and the offspring of two human beings can be nothing other than a human being. If you feel that we are something other than human beings from the time we are concieved, I welcome you to provide some credible science that suggests that the offspring of two human beings may be something other than a human being. I can certainly provide all manner of credible science that states explicitly that we are human beings from the time we are concieved.
The underlying premise of your argument seems to be that non humans can turn into human beings. Such a change woud require a radical change in our essential nature at some point.
Such a premise presents an insurmoutable logical problem however. If the change was biologically inevitable from conception, given time, then this change is not a change in essential nature.
It stands to reason that if the unborn naturally initiates the change, it must be in its nature from the beginning. If it is in its nature, then despite any changes in such characteristics as independence, place of residence, physical development, or demonstration of mental ability, what the being is in later life is what the being is from the beginning of its life.
QUOTE=Morality Games;499017]Your argument here is about as sensible saying a square television can be a triangular television. [/quote]
Funny since it is you who is suggesting that non humans metamorphose into human beings by some as yet undescribed process. If you are arguing that we undergo some metamorphosis that changes our essential nature, I am afraid that I am going to see some credible and valid science to support such a wild claim.
QUOTE=Morality Games;499017]Functionally, reducing myself to dust annihilates (destroys, if part of the body) or displaces (sends somewhere else, if not part of the body or a removable part of the body) myself, and makes my body less human and more dust.[/quote]
So now you are trying to compare the dead to the living? Your argument gets weaker all the time. If you find that you must attempt to draw an analogy between a thriving, perfectly healthy being and one who is dead and cremated, you should recognize that your argument is failing.
QUOTE=Morality Games;499017]Anyway, you are wrong, because humans are sapient (have certain powers of the mind that differentiate us from animals, and fetuses).[/quote]
Accepted evidence suggests that human children don't even become self aware until sometime between 8 and 18 months of age and the definition of sapient is to have wisdom and exhibit sound judgement. Newborns certainly aren't sapient and neither are most teenagers, and ditto for a large number of adults. Are you really arguing that we are not human beings until we are sapient?
Your argument is weak. Very weak. Any argument that suggests a radical change in our essential nature at any point in our life is going to require some sound science to back it up. We both know that such sound science will not be forthcoming because no credible scientist would suggest that the offspring of two human beings is ever anything but a human being.