[Matt]

Quote by: Gods_Mercenary Unless you somehow become lost in the wild w/o a knife of some sort, which you should bring anywhere where there might be a survival situation, you take a stick, apply knife, and about ten seconds later you have a relatively sharp spike.

I'm sorry to break it to you, but very few people (here at least, I live in rightest country btw) ever carry knives with them, especially the people who tend to get lost. So say if you make a sharp stick with a knife you got lost with, how will that puncture an animals that falls into the trap? For smaller animals I don't think there is a good chance they would directly land on the stick, nor would the force of gravity actually be enough to puncture the animal since it doesn't have much mass. Secondly, if you are trying to trap a larger animal (eg. deer) how can you dig out such a big space with only your hands or sticks?

Quote by: Anmon You have to understand hes a lefty, practicality and commonsense are completely foreign concepts to them.

At least we think outside the box and aren't stuck in the 19th century

Quote by: another day Worth it? Lol, what other choice do you have? Like I said, at this point you can't go to the supermarket and buy some macaroni and cheese if your traps aren't working... And yeah, when surviving your more likely to catch smaller animals because we don't really have the capabilities to bring down large prey on our own without good tools. One method is the pit thing that gods mercenary described, but in the past humans hunted in large groups and could easily hunt and kill a lion with simple spears thanks to our long distance running abilities, and advanced communication and organization tactics. Your first point sounds like it's in support of hunting. Look we can't just introduce more wolves and bears because the reality is that we are civilized and wolves and bears intrude on our civilization and end up being killed. Wolves kill livestock and get shot by farmers. Bears become habituated to humans and start roaming around towns posing a threat to people. The alternative is a human hunter population to control the deer population. As for they were "meant" to keep the deer in check, how are they meant to but humans aren't? By the very virtue that humans have developed the means to hunt and kill deer means we are part of that natural process of controlling their population (though not our own). Your last point about them killing weak and sick deer is good though. Of course this is right, but so what? This is reality. We are the dominate species on earth and while we have responsibilities towards the ecosystem, we also need to accept that our civilization will interfere with other species and it's just a fact of life. In the mean time we need to keep animal populations low enough that they don't significantly interfere with us. It may sound selfish to you but that's life. Would you suggest some people have their towns destroyed to that we can give more space for the deer? umm.. sticks? The fact is, when hunting was outlawed in india there was actually a dramatic rise in the number of animals killed by people, and the lion/tiger/elephant populations plummeted. When you put something on the black market, whether it's drugs, sex, or animal parts/fur, you dramatically increase the price of those goods. These leads to all kinds of opportunistic poachers who are simply in it for the money.. they have no quotas for allowed kills because all their kills are illegal, but they do it anyway because the risk is worth the payoff. A regulated hunting industry is much more responsible and knowledgeable when hunting and they DO actually care about wildlife because it's one of their passions, unlike the poachers.

The other choice you have is to look for other things you know you will be able to catch, like plant bulbs or berries. Waiting for a trap to work is not worth the time in most cases, nor the effort, considering you could actually be guranteed at getting something to eat by going for berries or roots.

And so far, human hunting hasn't controlled the populations well, and like I said, since in all probability hunting will start dying off, it is not sustainable.

Actually, some of us are not that civilized. Lets look at the meaning of civilized from the dictionary:

1. having an advanced or humane culture, society, etc.
2. polite; well-bred; refined.
3. of or pertaining to civilized people: The civilized world must fight ignorance.
4. easy to manage or control; well organized or ordered: The car is quiet and civilized, even in sharp turns.

Well, first of all, 'humane culture'...I don't think humans are yet to be humane. We murder people we don't like, we kill animals that don't need to be killed, we skin animals alive, many wars happen....killing many innocent people.

Secondly, alot of us are not polite. Thirdly, we are not that organized, nor are alot of us easy to control, like your example of India people still hunting even though it is against the law.

I like the "the civilized must fight ignorance."

So who are we to say that we are civlized?

There should be an immediate ban on hunting wolves, aswell as bear and cougars. And if you do kill them, you get put in jail for 10 years. Anyhow, going back to my first post in this thread, some humans do not like to share and want to have the 'top pred' status. They will only be pillars for the great end of society, ruining and trampling on life and the ecosystem, thinking they can run it and control it. They can't...and it will be proven soon.

Because humans were not meant to control deer populations (since humans were not natural to North America), they weren't here for a while, and when they were here they shared a small portion with the natural predators, and things worked smoothly. With white man's arrival, and his greed, North America has been plundered, by, for example, killing natural predators, and now the deer populations are too high. And for some very strange ignorant reason, people keep hunting wolves and cougars, which isn't helping the situation.

No, I would suggest the land that has yet to be pummelled or 'humanized' by machinary and humans to be declared as protected zones, where no one can build houses on or anyhow ruin the enviroment. Though trail systems could be in place so people could enjoy nature.

Humans are selfish and greedy, some more then others. It will eventually lead to the demsie of the earth unless people start taking action now, which will hurt us too, not just the animals.

The Indian Gov. would have much more trouble controlling it since they are not as organized to do so, then Canada would be, for example.

Actually, alot of hunters I have heard don't care about the animals they kill at all, they view them as a commodity.