[lsbskins1]

Quote by: grandpa Legal coercion is being applied all the time. It's hardly even in the realm of argument, but a fact of this system. Many will point out the existence of some corrupt snake keepers, but will still feed the snake itself. This is both out of ideological loyalty to the state (like you certainly have) and because people grow accustomed to carrying out orders under duress, even to the point where they pretend the duress is not there. You even suggest we could not have access to water without the coercive state, even though the state and capitalist industry is going out of their way to monopolize and, apparently, pollute such resources. Taken collectively, or even individually, they are no savior. However, if you veer away from the state-capitalist system, you'll most surely experience systematic coercion and alienation. You'll have a much more difficult time accessing resources and you'll likely either face much adversity or total obscurity. And that's supposedly good? This is why I have to wonder what kind of lives some of you Volconvo-ites have, where the system is somehow so benign, even beyond general criticism. Do you never step outside? When I do, I see my points validated over and over again. I view news sources -- even mainstream, democratic-Republican leaning ones -- and what I say is quite true. Sycophants don't paint it in these terms, but the state steals land and resources from the general population, and divvies them out to those obedient enough, and, significantly, to the wealthy. This is aided in large part by banks, which are essentially legal institutions, and other capitalist structures (such as insurance and mortgage companies). The pandering to ruling elites is the cause of our greatest problems. It's jarring to want to play the melody but leave the chords to them. Grandpa h.

You keep making this unfounded claim that because I do not think the whole system needs to be discarded that I think every fault of the system is acceptable. It may make you feel intellectually superior to think of me in those terms, but it is not accurate. I do not pretend that coercion is "not" part of the state. I accept that coercion is a necessary part of the state and understand that in balance, I gain more than I lose. I know that everyday, someone gets pulled over for speeding. I know that everyday, someone loses a patent case. I know that everyday, someone is denied a zoning variance. Millions of times these things happen. I am saying this is not the root of all evil. I do not live in a fantasy world. I live in the real world. The point is, that when someone is coerced into not speeding, more people are aided than are harmed. Maybe we should allow people to drive faster in some places and maybe speeding tickets have become a source of revenue that localities are heavily dependant on and tend to attempt to manipulate for their own ends, but really and truly, I would rather have to deal with fixing that problem than have to dispense with speeding tickets and go to my 7 year old nephew's funeral because some minority of fanatics think speeding tickets are evil.