[Matt]

Quote by: The Bacon Guy Firstly, humans are a part of nature and therefore anything we do is natural. Secondly, what difference does it make to the deer whether their predator fits some arbitrary concept of naturalness? I don't support making an effort to limit hunting; simply that if hunting becomes insufficient to control deer population we could introduce predators to work alongside hunters. I don't see why hunters would object to this, since anyone who does want to hunt would still be free to do so. But it's not life threatening to us and we're therefore not overpopulated. Not due to high population density. It's due more to overcopulation than overpopulation. Right, but we're not talking about Africa or Asia.

Actually, in North America humans are unnatural predators, see my reason in a past post.

It may make a difference:

The deer that may have been killed by a human could have lived out its life or be killed by a predator who needs it later on. Either way it lives longer, which would make a difference to the deer.

Do you agree that if predators would be added to an area to help control deer populations that there should be a law saying the hunters can not kill the predators? Otherwise, they will most likely, from what I've heard is that they do get annoyed that the cougars/deer are killing 'their' deer and then they kill them.

Again, the dictionaries' definitions do not say that if a certain species of creature does effect other species, but not its self, that it is not overpopulation.

"the condition of having a population so dense as to cause environmental deterioration, an impaired quality of life, or a population crash"

Many species of animals have impaired living quality because of us, and enviroment deterioration would include species going extinct or almost extinct, and the ruining of their habitat.

Quote by: ParaTed2k The bottom line... Hunting is a legal activity, so we shouldn't have to justify why we want to hunt to anyone.

In Afghanistan, if people say women are equal to men, the law says they get beheaded. Since it is legal, that makes it right and their shouldn't be any justification about it, correct?

In the USA, abortion is legal, but does that mean it shouldn't be questioned and people shouldn't have to justify their positions on it? No.

Thanks for conceading, btw.

Quote by: another day No, humans do not balance out the earth. As creatures that have surpassed a plateau of consciousness, we no longer primarily serve the earth and nature. We serve ourselves. You can either see that as a flaw of nature, or as a virtue, that nature has created us to enjoy ourselves. Personally I think it's likely a flaw.. but why should we serve nature? It has created a world for us that is full of suffering. If we can overcome that, even at the expense of other species etc, is it necessarily wrong? Or are we rebelling against a crude and harsh existence? Maybe this rebellion is our "purpose" as humans. I don't necessarily subscribe to this philosophy but it's an interesting perspective I've taken to examining lately. But as for the problems that humanity causes the earth, hunting for food is not one of the problems. Poaching for animal skins and elephant tusks and such is a massive problem. I also disagree with all forms of animal cruelty such as foie gras production, inhumane animal farming etc. But the real problem is our pillaging of the earths limited natural resources like coal, lumber, natural gas, oil etc. and the pollution caused by this to the ecosystem. It's just so much easier to say "save the seals" when they have cute cuddly faces and look at you with those adorable puppy eyes, then it is to fight for a worthy cause, like the protection of the earth's atmosphere and such.

No, its not a flaw, its a gift. We must use our gift wisely, and we must be good stewards to the earth. With are extra brain power, we are the only creatures that can reason things out. Would I say to a wolf that hunting is not needed and you shouldn't be doing it? No, since they can't understand that. Humans can though.

Trying to stop seal hunting is a worthy cause. I agree, the whole climate change thing is probably more important, but I'm doing my little part to aware people of the cruelty of the seal hunt.

Btw, I'd like to thank everyone for keeping this a nice debate, and actually stating thought provoking points and not just saying "Shooting rabbits is fun, and wolvers enjoys the great outdoors, so theres nothing wrong with hunting."

Quote by: another day Ridiculous... since when did legality equal truth? All "laws" must be rationally examined to determine if they should infact be laws or not. This is like saying "marijuana is illegal, so there should be no debate about it's effects on health or wellbeing"

Agreed.