[Matt]

Quote by: The Dunedan Cows exist for me to eat them. If you'd ever seen the utter idiocy (inconveniently and dangerously combined with great size) of a cow at close range, you'd understand this. Likewise sheep, which are even dumber, although thankfully much smaller. Chickens, Guineas, etc...all fall at about the same level, with domestic Turkeys being so abysmally stupid that they can drown in a rainstorm. No animal remotely approaching that level of idiocy would survive to reproductive age in the wild, where a great many things -still- don't, despite being smarter. Cats, dogs, horses, etc...are somewhat more intelligent, although I've met a few Irish Setters too dumb to find their way out of a phone booth. Added to this, they perform useful functions for us (hunting mice, gaurding the house, pulling things etc) and make lousy meat, so we keep them as companions rather than food. This suits me just fine, since I can't imagine dog tastes very good in any language other than Korean, and cats seem too stringy to be worth the effort. Horse is good, properly prepared, but is easy to get wrong. As for hunting, this is what we call reality: humans are an evolutionary pressure, just like any other sort of predation. We're a part of nature, just like the animals are, and our nature is omnivorism tilted sharply to carnivorism. I hunt because I can spend $.75 on a bullet, or $75+ for the same amount of dead animal at the grocery store. I'm a human, the animals aren't. I'm at the top of the food chain, they're not. My ancestors evolved for 5 million years to get up here, theirs didn't. As for wolves killing before they eat...you might wanna read up on that. Wolves commonly eviscerate and consume their prey alive. \http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/06/0....01footet.html

NO animal exsists to feed you. They may be destined to the dinner plate, but they exsist for their own reasons.

No mention of a pig, eh? They are quite smart.

You are correct, none would survive in the wild. Because with hundreds of years of humans making cows, chickens, pigs, ect. more domesticated, of course they couldn't survive in the wild. Pigs came from other wild boars/pigs, and cows came (the North American ones) from something that is now extinct I think.

My point is we did have to huny in the past to live, not now...so why do it? There is no good reason to IMO. We now realize (most of us), that sexist and racist views are wrong. Most of us also view murder wrong. But it wouldn't have been called murder before, it would have been 'pressure' to keep territory or some more meat. Thousands of years ago, killing a person wasn't really a bad thing to do, and it happened often. Also, racist and sexist viewas are finally starting to go the way of the doe-doe bird, with most people. And I'm sure as every year passes more people will stop hunting, and more people will view it as wrong. Its what I call civilized evolution

I'm not a member of the nytimes so I can't see it. See my flag?

Quote by: tivodan1116 False. Wolves are pretty much as capable of metabolizing nutrients through plants as we are. What you mean is that they have evolved into meat-eating animals. And on that point... This is the argument that always annoys me the most, usually because the people that make it claim to be some kind of nature lovers yet are woefully ignorant of how nature and biology have worked over millions of years... Ok, I'm going to explain this very carefully: All animals have evolved. Human beings are just one particular species of animal. Animals evolve traits that allow them to survive. The human trait that has allowed us to survive is INTELLIGENCE. Through our intelligence, we learn to make TOOLS. We use those tools to accomplish survival. Humans using their intelligence to create a gun to shoot an animal is NO DIFFERENT than a wolf using its strength, sense of smell, and sharp teeth to hunt an animal. We evolved certain traits, they evolved others. Get it? Well said. You're obviously someone who, unlike our OPer, understands and appreciates where our food comes from and the true role that human beings play.

No, because I don't believe in any of that evolved stuff, I'm the C word. Get it?

With our intelligence, we have the thought capabilities to reason that killing things we don't need is wrong (a few of us can, some can't though). Wolves don't. Our intellignce comes with responsibilities. Thats why some of us have reasoned hunting is bad, and no wolves have. They don't have the thinking powers we do to think out of the instinct box.

Role that some humans play: Ignorant, ego and instinct filled creatures who are harming the earth and one day the earth will be no more.





Again, that makes no difference to the animal being killed. You're pretty much confirming my suspicion that anti-hunting advocates are not animal rights activists, but intolerant, moralising fascists.

Would you rather die for something that needed you to live, or some fat pot bellied guy who will mount your head on the wall? Think about it. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall, the difference is one needs it and the other doesn't. Why let the one who doesn't need it kill more then needed (needed=0)?

And you have confirmed my suspicion that you are a ignorant, instinct driven person.


Right, so most is done with guns and some of the hunting done with guns may be done in a cruel fashion. That's a long way from convincing me that all hunting should be banned.


Like you yourself said, to deal with overpopulation problems.


Good, because you would be incorrect in using it.


What difference does this make to the animal being killed? It seems like this has nothing to do with protecting animals from suffering and everything to do with your subjective notions of what humans should and should not find enjoyable.


North America doesn't suffer from overpopulation.


The three reasons previously stated.


No more than it would when the exploding deer populaton consumes all the resources and it starves to death.


No one is talking about hunting wolves and cougars.

Some humans still have an instinct, and they find killing stuff fun. Can't wait till that gene wares off...but soon it will...with civilized evolution.

Yes, North America (most the USA) does suffer from an overpopulation. Look at how few wild places there are....humans have taken over completely.

Humans cause problems, they try to bandage them up. In this case, humans killed offf most of the natural predators, so they are trying to be the predators. Won't work.