[Sonart]

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Quote by: Voluntary Sounds like the monarch in which we revolted against. Perhaps, if Hamilton used some common sense and not passed a discriminatory tax based on his personal values, then he wouldn't have caused a rebellion.

Sounds more like politics as usual... but then, I'm not among the folks on this board who believed our founders walked on water.

I'm simply pointing out -- as per the topic of this thread -- that tax resisters are nothing new, have been around since almost day one of our country's libertarian founding, and that the federal government was as tough on them then as you think they are today.

Quote by: Voluntary I can see that you are a Federalist, so we are going to naturally butt heads.

LOL!! I was simply pointing out a fact, dude. The Constitution of 1789 provided for a much stronger central government than did the Articles of Confederation that preceded it.

Are you denying it?

But yes... I'm a Democrat, which I suppose makes me a "Federalist". I believe the Federal government has a valuable role in protecting working Americans from the excesses of the free market.

Quote by: Voluntary I would love to hear your definition of a legitimate government. Thanks for conceding that the Law does not make something just.

Don't be obtuse. And who ever said that laws are automatically just. I simply said no legitimate government... a government recognized by it's citizens and by other governments ,,,can allow it's citizens to disobey it's laws with impunity. (Unless, as occasionally happens, a regime chooses not to enforce laws for political reasons. Witness President Bush's defiance of the Supreme Court ruling on CO2 pollution)

Quote by: Voluntary Too bad the rebellion was not against an honest and just Republican Governor in the first place.

Jefferson still would not allow a rebellion against his government to succeed, and would have used every power at his disposal to put it down. He just would have been merciful in dishing out punishment once it was put down.

And no one's going to be happy with every decision a government makes, not matter how "honest and just" they may be. The Browns make it clear that some folks just can't stand being told what to do, despite living in the freest, least taxed democratic nation in the world.

Quote by: Voluntary Nice try, but I won't let you take this out context to your fit your mythical dreams.

Well then, by all means, Voluntary... correct me. When has our government ever allowed an armed insurrection to succeed?

Quote by: Voluntary They had the fucking right to revolt.

Toranaga: "There is no mitigating factor for rebellion against your liege lord."

Blackthorne: "Unless you win."

Toranaga: (stares at Blackthorn, then laughs) "Very well, you may have named the one mitigating factor."

No legitimate government can allow an armed rebellion against it to succeed... no matter HOW justified it might be.

Quote by: Voluntary Not paying your unjust taxes that you could not afford in which the state seizes your property and places you in prison is pretty FUCKING severe.

Unlike the folks of western Massachusetts in 1794, very, very few Americans find paying income tax so unjust that they willing to pay the price of civil disobedience.

Quote by: Voluntary This country was founded upon ideas espoused by Locke and Paine, not an armed rebellion.

My, aren't you choosy on which specific ideals our country was founded upon.

Quote by: Voluntary Since you are apparently a Statist, I can see how you have this perverted view that this county was formed by an armed rebellion rather through enlightenment.

{{YAWN}}

"An honest person can concede that 200 years ago, attitudes about race were dramatically different than they are today and was only just beginning to change during the Age of Enlightenment, and that even many of those Americans who were strongly opposed to slavery were still racially bigoted... not the least example being Abraham Lincoln, the Great Emancipator himself." -- Sonart to BobbyO

I'm not an idiot, Voluntary... I know this country was a direct result of the Enlightenment. It was also a direct result of, and informed by, an armed rebellion against the superpower of the day, Great Britian.

And if YOU are not an idiot, you also should know that statism is a direct result of the Enlightenment turned indifferent by the industrial revolution.

Quote by: Voluntary Quite your nonsense. Washington was a Federalists.

{{Pfffft!!}} Tell that to the Libertarians around here. This board used to be a coven of Libertarians.

Quote by: Voluntary I don't agree with the Browns, like I don't agree with your perverted sense of history.

What?? That even a government that prides itself on being founded by rebellion, who's founders romanticized the concept with the 2nd Amendment, "founded upon ideas espoused by Locke and Paine" would never themselves allow an armed rebellion to succeed against their own regimes? That no government, not matter how benign, can allow its citizens to defy its laws with impunity?

Yeah, I guess that's pretty perverted.

Quote by: Charlatan This video uses quite a lot of things to prove that it is a fraud and against the constitution which you haven't proven wrong by making these statements.

The Constitution makes perfectly clear the mechanism for determining what is or isn't Constitutional... The Supreme Court of the United States and "in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish.".

Article III, Section 2: The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States,...

Not by homemade videos.

Quote by: Charlatan How is he lying? It was played at the Cannes.

And Bill Clinton didn't lie when he said, "I did not have sexual relations with that woman..."

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