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Quote by: Winter wind What stupid ass government would attempt that in one go? I get chipping away at the constitution slowly, but obliterating it that quickly? No government would dare try something so idiotic. Not in a country where the Constitution is everything.

Not as long as the public is armed. I didn’t think that a slow chipping away at the public’s rights would work since to do it you would need to eliminate the two party system along with private gun ownership. With a two party system the party for the peoples rights would constantly be undoing what ever the party for tyranny would do to the peoples rights. I believe that the only way that it could happen would have to be swiftly more or less. Disarm the public before hand this removes the threat of an armed resistance, when your numbers are sufficiently large in the government and you hold key positions in the military and congress, engineer an economic collapse of the economy, declare marshal law, shut down the press, kill or imprison any who would oppose you and replace them with your people and when the doors open back up no more freedom the constitution and bill of rights are dead. Explain that you had to do it because the other party caused the collapse in an effort to take over. We had to take over to protect you, your rights will be reinstalled when we are sure the threat is past. And the rights never return.

Quote by: Winter wind I still don't get where guns come into the picture here. If there was a civil war, then either both sides would allow their public to own a gun or not. I know that was vague, so lets pretend the civil war happened again. If there is a gun control law, both the people in the north and in the south don't have as many guns. So it just weakens both sides.

The civil war that would in sue after an egregious act by the government would be the public against the government. I do believe that some states would opt to go with the public but most would stick with the power structure of the fed’s. But the government knows that as long as the public is armed they don’t stand a chance that is why an armed public is a deterrent to tyranny.

Quote by: Winter wind A government in America would never wage war against its people, it's counter to everything an American government is.

I wouldn’t bet my life on that, would you? No government is free from corruption and the US government is no different. The American government is constantly changing its leaders how can you determine that 20 or so years in the future it will still be benevolent? You can’t that is why the founders put the second amendment in to the constitution as a check and balance against the government. Once the public is disarmed and the government holds absolute power over us what assures us that that government will not abuse it’s power and authority? Nothing prevents it accept and armed public. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Quote by: Winter wind So their justification would be...because there's a war going on or something.

Their justification would be anything they chose, since there is no avenue that the public could use to stop them from doing anything they chose to do as long as the public is unarmed.

Quote by: Winter wind My problem with the above is the government would never do something like that solely to gain absolute power. Bureaucracy is not smart enough to be that manipulative. I think what would be more plausible would be a government that took those rights away because a rebel group had gained control over...lets say California (For Hollywood freedom). They would have police control over the country to fight the attack.

Bureaucracy is all about control, why is it that they control just about every aspect of our society. Just about everything you do in the US you have to go through a bureaucrat to attain it, by licensing, fees, inspections and approvals by the bureaucracies. Christ there are some areas where you can’t even cut down a tree in your own yard with out approval? DMV, IRS, EPA, MSHA, OSHA, FDA, BATFE, ETC. It wouldn’t be the bureaucracies that do the manipulation it is the government that gives the bureaucracy its ever-expanding power that does the manipulation. The first order of a bureaucracy is to protect that bureaucracy and to expand the bureaucracy.

Marshal law would only be declared if for instance our economy collapsed and causing rioting in the streets. A rebel group would be handled like ruby ridge, Kent State or the branch dividians were, shoot them or burn them out.

Quote by: Winter wind See, my problem with the above is that people are either for the current government and accept the absolute rule, or they sneak of to California to get grenades and fashion tips. The Hollywood freedom front is getting guns from some international weapons dealer (I'm guessing Jackie Chan) so the guns are part of the movement.

When I last checked the constitution, the government is subservient to the people. The people are supposed to be the masters here not the government but most of our government officials have lost sight of this. This is why the people need to be armed.

Quote by: Winter wind So how can you now fight for your country and fight against it as it comes to take your guns away?

I’m not quite sure what you mean? If you fight for your country it is to protect it, If you fight for your freedom you fight against it.

[quote=Winter wind;485523]They would not go into a police for an economic reason or because of a natural disaster and care about guns.

Really? Didn’t they confiscate guns in New Orleans after Katrina?

Quote by: Winter wind Yes, but the move you are talking about sounds like the government won't be able to take names that fast. If the government has disarmed the public and has announced that the president is now supreme commander for life, there will be a coup, it will be swift and will destroy the government before anyone has time to say 1984. Why wouldn't there be a coup?

Who will run the coup? The military is just a mindless killing machine (your words) and if the commanders of that military are in the pocket of the President and the party of tyranny where will the coup come from? The only ones left are the people and they are unarmed.

Quote by: Winter wind The reason why number one doesn't work is because, for tyranny to make sure the military and the rest of Congress doesn't take his/her head off is have the people on his/her side. Then it really doesn't matter if the public has guns.

All you need is the military in your court and you don’t need to sweat congress. What are they going to do? They have just been made irrelevant. Of course the ones in the presidents party in congress would back him up and there would be a majority in his favor.

Quote by: Winter wind And I'd use my pen to skip to Brussels and write letters to countries asking them to put pressure on America to return to democracy. They would agree because a tyrannical state is always and unpredictable state. America would be forced to return to what it was or become an isolated state which would last all of five seconds before the military would say "screw you".

Why would they? Since the greater majority of countries on this planet are not democracies they would relish the fact the US is no longer a force to be reckoned with either militarily or economically, since our military would be at home keeping the people in line.