[Sonart]

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Quote by: Morgan Freeman I would agree, if what you say is true. However, the evidence points in the opposite direction -- that an armed populace is a safer once.

Morgan!! Nice to see you dude! Seems like it's been a while.

And no, the evidence doesn't point in the opposite direction. Every ranking I've ever seem puts the U.S. among the most violent, murderous nations in the civilized world. You saw my chart where the U.S. is the most murderous among the 37 wealthiest nations.

Murder rate per 100,000 -- United States -- 24th

Firearm Homicide rate per 100,000 -- United States -- 8th

% of murders with guns -- United States -- 7th

Quote by: Roxdog Yes. Or no. WTF ever. Once again, BECAUSE militias are necessary, the right of the "THE PEOPLE to keep and bear arms"

And which militias are currently necessary for the security of the United States? And no, the National Guard is part of the U.S. Army.

Quote by: Roxdog Sonart, you can post Brady bunk all day long, it doesn't change the fact that you are a liar and a fascist...Appointed men in drag can make "laws" stating the sun doesn't shine....but it does. YOU are an "anomoly"...You bootlicking coward.

Sorry, Roxy... I don't source Brady or Handgun Control or the NRA, etc. But thanks for the well considered rebuttle.

Quote by: Kite Then why not ban cars? They cause far more deaths than guns. Your logic is flawed.

Nah, based on how often each is operated, guns are several hundred times more deadly than automobiles.

A while back I responded to this silly comparison with that point, and my worthy opponent responded with, "Yeah, sure, prove it."

So I did. I went through the whole excercise, complete with linked sources... the number of guns in the U.S - around 2 million - the number of registered automobiles - around 2.5 milllion... how many times a day automobiles are operated day, how many miles on average are they driven, how many times a year guns are used in crimes, how many times a years they're used for defense against crimes, how many hunbers in the U.S., how often on average do they go hunting, how many indoor and outdoor shooting ranges exist in the U.S., how many patrons on average attend shooting ranges, etc. etc. etc.

I'll go through it again if you insist, but you really won't like that result... like I said, when comparing the number of times Americans get behind the wheel of a car to the number of times Americans pick up and fire a gun, guns were literally hundreds of times more deadly.

And YET, unlike those more deadly firearms, Americans are REQUIRED BY LAW to register an automobile before they can drive it, must pass a test and be licensed before they can operate an automobile, and must be insured before they can drive their car.

And oddly enough, I don't see Roxdog declaring they can have his drivers license when they pry it from his cold, dead hands.

Quote by: Kite Also places that are much better policed or far less violent to begin with.

Says who? We're the wealthiest, baddest nation on earth, the toughest on crime, with the highest prison per capita prison population in the world, and you say other countries are better policed???

And less violent to begin with??? Yeah, because they were saturated with the mythology of gun culture, gun violence, the code of the West, John Wayne, Dirty Harry, Rambo. etc. etc.

Quote by: Kite What does prison population have to do with anything?

With the nonsense that we should focus our attention on criminals, not guns. With the largest prison population on earth, exactly how focused on criminals are we supposed to get? And has it reduced gun violence??? Not a whit.

Quote by: Kite Any responsible gun owner will tell you that a gun is a very last resort, and that calling the police or talking things out are much better way of solving problems than brandishing a weapon.

Yeah, yeah, and a responsible car owner will tell you to drive defensively, always signal, buckle up, etc.

We still have to register our cars every year, insure them and get a license to drive.

Quote by: Kite Thats a smart decision, since there are MANY people that would do far more than punch you if you tried to disarm them. Those are the people you have to worry about.

Yeah, I'm so proud we're such a peaceful people whose priorities are straight. Take my kids, take my car, but by gawd I'll kill ya if you try to take my guns!

Quote by: Kite Guns have never created problems.

Nope... it's the dang bullets that cause the problems.

Quote by: Kite They have only made it easier for people who can get their hands on them to create problems.

Yes indeedy, and we just happen to live in a country where it's really easy to get our hands on them.... hell, just go to any gun show.

Quote by: Kite To suggest that violence is un-american is simply ignorance on your part.

To the contrary, I'm saying that it's VERY American... I'm just unhappy that it is and would like to see us change it.

Quote by: Kite So the actions of one irrational person should decide the fate of all normal people who wish to own a firearm?

Because it's not just one irrational person, (and by the way, mister Peairs was ACQUITTED) it's the 30 to 40,000 firearm deaths per year... the 3.6 gun murders for every 100,000 Americans.

Quote by: Kite Since when does morality have anything to do with law? People have different morals, therefore laws with morals built into them are always controversial and usually fail. Also, since your busy doing away with our rights as a nation, why not take away the first amendment too, since free speech threatens the status quo so much. Hell, take away the whole damn bill of rights, since its soooo out of date. And they are all definatly dangerous to the police state that you envision. If you don't like the laws in this country there are plenty of other places where you can get robbed and not be able to defend yourself, so why not stop complaining and do something?

Because I don't have to take away anything, Kite.

Based on the current law of the land, based on our Constitution and the Supreme Court, we already do NOT have an individual right to keep and bear arms. The 2nd Amendment, based on it's original intent is MOOT... it's meaningless... a well-regulated militia is NOT necessary.

I'm just saying it's for the better, so get over it
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