[JLrep]

Quote by: freefallife And what does sin have to do with natural disasters? Even the most pious of people can have their church blown apart by a tornado while the most vile can live their entire lives without such suffering. If all this is a punishment for sin, then one has to attempt to explain why innocent newborn children suffer. So what is it? If its all because of sin, why suffer the newborn child?

Because newborn children are sinful. They are not innocent. Whether or not they commit any overt sins, they are born of sinful parents and tainted by original sin.

The human race decided to sin, and so the human race suffers.

Quote by: freefallife Yes, I get what your saying, but you are not providing any SUPPORT for it.

If you get what I'm saying, why have you spent the past seven pages either misunderstanding or ignoring me?
I don't see how my support will clear things up. My support is my faith. You don't share my faith, but, the debate is justifying the existence of evil within a certain theistic framework, not proving or disproving that framework.

Quote by: freefallife Im sorry, but good is indeed subjective. What may bring a masive amount of pleasure to you may affect me less profoundly. Evil is the exact same. What may cause you immense pain, may not effect me as quite a disaterous. They are both subjective descriptions of a human experience. Lets say we both experience the loss of our familly dog. This experience might cause you great pain (evil), while it might not cause me as much distress. So, pain and suffering is subjective and evil is a description of an experience, in this case the loss of a family pet. Now lets say that we both go to a football game. We are cheering for opposing teams. your team wins the game, mine loses. You might consider that a great game, while I might not. So, pleasure is also subjective and it is a description of an experience, in this case a football game. While those examples may be oversimplified, I think with a moment of contemplation, you could apply it to any amount of evil or good experienced by individuals to any number of different experiences. The bottom line is that evil and good both exist and are subjective descriptions of a human experience, as I have shown. There is my support.

So, pleasure is subjective, and pain, and suffering, all of which are effects of evil or good, or are shaped by evil or good, but which are not themselves evil or good. Must I keep repeating myself? Experiences are composed of moments and events and people and places and things and other things which are more or less quantifiable.

Good and evil are subjective when your viewpoint stops with this world; if I kill a man because I dislike him and my neighbor executes a condemned man, then I killed sinfully (evil) while my neighbor killed righteously (good). But the reality is not that we've done the same thing, but we've done the exact opposite: I have disobeyed God's command, and my neighbor has obeyed it (by fulfilling his duty as an executioner). The two actions are objectively and entirely different.

Quote by: freefallife I will tell you this, under the definition of good, it does not say "see god"

Duly noted.