[TRIGGER]

Quote by: Sonart .Since our founding, name ONE armed insurrection against the Federal Government that has succeeded. Just name one!

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I don’t have to there have been no insurrections, although there was a succession from the US by the Confederate states, which is sanctioned by the constitution. But what happened was an aggressive act by the United States on the Confederacy, which I would call an invasion of a sovereign nation not an insurrection.

Quote by: Sonart .The ONLY resistance that has succeeded in reforming unjust laws has been PEACEFUL civil disobedience, in the model of Gandi and Martin Luther King, Jr.

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· How about the American and French revolutions?
· There were also the Russian revolution and the Cuban revolution though they didn’t benefit the people.
· Of course there was the The Xinhai Revolution of 1911-1912.
· The 1913 Second Revolution.
· The 1917-1922 Constitutional Protection War or Third Revolution.
· The Northern Expidition of 1926-1928, also known as the Nationalist Revolution.
· The Chinese Civil War of 1927-1950. These were also to the detriment of the people ending with the Communist China.
· In Brazil, in a sugar cane region near the Atlantic ocean known as Pernambuco, a group of 40 enslave Africans rebelled against their master. They killed all the white employees and burned the houses and plantation. They headed to a very hostile area in the mountains, known as Palmares, because of its abundance of palm trees. In this place an African community was born which lasted for over 100 years. It was divided into eleven fortified sites. There, a population estimated to be about 20 000 free Africans created a new religion and a common language to bring together at least six different African cultures. It is argued that they organized the first socialist society in world. They also mobilized an army that could take over Pernambuco, if they wanted to. They defeated seven attacks from Brazilian military forces and from a Dutch army that had invaded and occupied that region for some years. They ignored a proposal of peace and freedom for all, from the king of Portugal. Zumbi of Palmares, today a hero for Brazilian blacks, was the name of a young acolyte who grew up and became the greatest leader of this African community. Also in this community the first forms of Capoeira which is a deadly martial art, were developed.
Of course these were not always the benefit of the people but they were still successful revolts nonetheless.

Quote by: Sonart .They had just succeeded in an armed rebellion, therefore armed rebellion was, fresh in their minds, very justifiable. But who among the founders, when it became THEIR TURN TO GOVERN -- Washington, Adams, Jeffereson, Madison, etc. -- would have allowed an armed rebellion to succeed against THEIR governments on THEIR watch? None of them. Because, for all their romantic embracing of their glorious revolution, no legitimate government can allow an armed rebellion to succeed against them.

When it comes to revolution I don’t think that the governing body may have the luxury of just winning as the successful revolutions I already have mentioned prove.

Quote by: Sonart .The ever popular... Toranaga: - "There is no mitigating factor for rebellion against your liege lord." Blackthorne: - "Unless you win." Toranaga: - (stares at Blackthorne for a moment, and then laughs) "Very well, you may have named the one mitigating factor."

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It’s not clear to me how the loosely based writings of a Novelist have anything do with the Constitution or writings, debates, and speeches of our founding fathers.

Quote by: Sonart .No, it's not... it's the "Well-Regulated Militia" as defined by the Constitution and by Hamilton... But the other fathers as well as Hamilton made it quite clear the militia in the second is the whole people. I think that is quit clear with all the quotes I have given. "But though the scheme of disciplining the whole nation must be abandoned as mischievous or impracticable; yet it is a matter of the utmost importance that a well-digested plan should, as soon as possible, be adopted for the proper establishment of the militia. The attention of the government ought particularly to be directed to the formation of a select corps of moderate extent, upon such principles as will really fit them for service in case of need." How clear does it have to be???

Don’t forget the rest of it.

“By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defense of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens.”

Quote by: Sonart .So? It's still right there in the Constitution.

I never said it wasn't.

Quote by: Sonart .Really? Based on what? Let's not forget Article IV, Section 2. "No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due." They're talking about escaped slaves, Trigger.

In my earlier post I should have made it clearer when I said they were property I was eluding to Article IV, Section 2. Sorry I’ll try to be more specific in the future. I would think that this would also apply to indentured servents don't you?

Quote by: Sonart .If it's only reason for existing is to cause massive injury and death, you bet your frigging ass I'd need a responsible reason for it.

Actually the government does not see it your way since there are those weapons in civilian hands; they are classified as destructive devices and are regulated by the federal government and over seen by BATFE. I think you need to get out more. I wish I had a smiley face to end this with. LOL

Quote by: Sonart .Beyond that, after 200 years, the U.S. is no closer to tyranny than any of dozens of other successful, modern, peaceful and gun-controlled democracies around the world. The difference is that WE are by far the most violent of all of them. So the only thing our proliferation of deadly weapons has done is turn us into a sick, murderous society which, despite supposedly being armed just for that purpose, couldn't defeat the mightiest standing army in the world -- the U.S. military -- if it wanted to.

In your opinion. You may trust this government but there are plenty of us out here that don’t. And we shouldn’t have to have our rights violated on your opinion.

Quote by: Sonart .Not quite what the founders had in mind, methinks.

And you are entitled to your opinion.

Quote by: Sonart .Not by force of arms we're not. By the power of the vote.

A wise philosopher once said “It’s not those who vote that chose public officals. It’s those who count the votes.” Joseph Stalin