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Quote by: Real Thing That's preposterous and paranoid.

No, it's not. I have posted more than enough evidence on this board regarding the ongoing campaign by the likes of the American Petroleum Institute and the American Enterprise Institute and their efforts to muddy the waters of climate change, by paying scientists and opinion makers to suggest there's more questions about the reality of global warming than there actually is.

When folks like Praxius and brien make the same arguments, they are, whether intentionally or not, playing into the hands of the denial campaign.

That's not paranoia, that's proven fact.

Quote by: Real Thing But to accuse ordinary folk hanging out in debate forums of being "fifth columnists" for anyone is really over-the-top.

Intentional propogandist or naive dupe.... take your pick. The effect is the same.

Quote by: Real Thing Those are all quite admirable steps to take, and I congratulate you on them! But...you are still driving a gas-powered vehicle. What's your level of income/expenditure? Are you contributing to primary production by purchasing new durables, or are you buying things like your computer second-hand?

I'm typing this now on a second-hand laptop, an HP pavilion ze4600, having recycled my previous electronics at the local Universal Waste recycling center. And the fact that I may or may not be achieving YOUR expectations of a perfect green lifestyle does not change my right to speak truth about global warming.

In fact, if perfection is your criteria, no one will EVER address the problem. Is that what you want? People need to start taking steps now... even baby steps ...and that won't happen until people are convinced that the problem is real.

Quote by: Real Thing Nonsense. You obviously aren't feeling confused, but you're still driving a gas-powered vehicle. Why is that? Perhaps because you're still addicted to your own conveniences and comforts - even if you are a step or two ahead of some others in taking responsibility for your own actions?

Once again, how does the fact that I merely drive a "fuel efficient" car rather than "a hybrid" disqualify me from speaking truth about global warming.

That's the fascinating thing about conservation... if everyone in America took ONLY THOSE STEPS that I have, we'd cut our energy use by 25% or more. Following the two '70s oil boycotts, by 1980 Americans had cut our oil import by 25% by simple conservation alone.

Quote by: Real Thing Very little escapes my notice. As you are the one claiming to be a champion of the environment, however, I'm principally concerned with how your verbal behaviour makes a movement I'm involved in look to the general public.

Interesting... you have no problem with posters who would have us ignore serious environmental problems, but gawd forbid that my tone in championing the environment should offend your delicate sensibilities.

I'm so pleased you have your priorities so squared away.

Quote by: tivodan Prove to me that I, living as a middle-class American firmly in the grip of the snow belt, will be harmed if the predictions of global warming alarmists come to bear.

Oh, I can't, tivo... not as someone "firmly in the grip of the snow belt", at least not for the next couple of generations.

Nah, in the near future it will be the less developed world that will suffer from climate change... crop losses, desertification, drought, flooding, etc. etc. and start dying in the millions... or mass emigrating to the more developed world. But that's fine with you, right? Not your problem.

As to how global warming might affect you or your grand-children in the long term, here, see for yourself.

Quote by: Praxius If there is such a thing as global warming, I'm certainly not to blame, and where I live I won't be feeling much of the effects. At the worst, flooding... whoopie do.

No one person is to blame, Praxius... it's the now 6 billion people, all living on the burning of fossil fuels, that's to blame.

Was that tactful enough for your sensitive nature, Real Thing?

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