[Praxius]

Quote by: ruksak They weren't asked to do anything illegal. They were not told to fire directly on civilians. They were not told to dig a mass grave, execute and summarily bury the dead. They were not asked to do anything illegal. Receiving orders to deploy to a war zone; LEGAL. No objection is warranted by the soldier.

But they are firing on civilians due to the enviroment they have been placed in, the orders which have been given to them, the mental issues most of these soldiers have gone through, it's not just being sent off to a war zone and doing their job.... it's everything around it.... and you can not ignore what is going on around you and the affect it has on you.... and I'm not talking about the typical effects of war on a soldier in a "Normal Justified" war.

Orders to deploy in a War Zone by terminology alone they have nothing to question..... but when the rest of the world, including your own country states this war as illegal, then following those orders are also in turn illegal and those soldiers are contributing to this illegal act.

Receiving orders to shoot civilians, dig a mass grave, torture a suspected combatant; ILLEGAL. An objection or evasive action is warranted by the soldier.

Clearly you have not been reading much of what I have been reporting in these forums, as many of these cases in which shooting civilians, torturing suspects for information, holding an enemy officer's family hostage, all seemed to have been justified in one manner or another..... why should these guys who deserted be branded the evil villians for actually seeing what the war truly is and not giving up their human principles in the process?

You know there is a few good reasons I could list as to why the suicide rate of US soldiers who fought in Iraq is so high.

According to you. But not the international community. Many many other nations took part in Iraq. You cannot substitute reality with your slanted anti-American opinion. Reality still stands, and your opinion is muted.

Denied... The international community does see this war as illegal.... hell the UN claimed it was illegal before the US invaded.... go see some news and opinions from other countries besides the US for once.

Tony Blair got suckered into the false information provided by Bush and his adminiatration and he had aknowleged this mistake. Australia is also in the processes of trying to get their troops out of there...

But the head of the snake in this situation is located in the US, and trying to pass blame over to other countries is what I find not part of reality and thus muted, as you put it.

How dysfunctional would our military become if this was common place?

This wouldn't happen if your country restricted your forces to be used in only meaningful wars which directly affect your nation.

These soldiers signed up for the Army for college money and realized "Oh shit, I actually have to go to war? F*ck that, I'm going to Canada".

This is not what they have claimed were their reasons for desertion, not were they their reasons for joinging.... pretty ignorant.

I'm sure many of the brave soldiers in Iraq probably feel the same way, politically speaking. But they do their duty as soldiers. They see through the commitment they signed up for. They pick up the limbs of their fallen brothers and they sally forth. They didn't run off to Canada to smoke that Northern Lights. They were men.

Once again..... a matter of opinion.... since this is an invasion, and since it is an unjust war, my opinion is that only blood thirsty, biggoted and ignorant murderers who can't think for themselves could find justification in this and call themselves a hero.

They have no business making military decisions for their country. What if our grandfathers had this attitude on a wide scale during WWII? "I don't believe invading Germany is right. I'm going to Canada".

That wouldn't be the case, as during that time Canada also had a Draft, there was no escape to this war, and WWII had some more justifications and principles to stand for then this.... a comparison of Iraq to WWII is pretty silly.

As well, what proof do you have that they are actually are opposed to the war on some moral level? Huh? Maybe thats just an excuse. Maybe they only signed up so they could get money for college. Maybe they didn't see a war coming when they signed up. Maybe they're full of shit and this is an excuse.

Maybe it was.... but if they thought that when joining up, then they were stupid..... but somehow they seemed to have gotten some brains in forming a plausable story in which everybody believes and finds logical.... so this isn't the case.

But now you're getting into further speculations where there is no evidence.... I am basing my opinion and views on the provided evidence.

These clowns are traitors and they deserve a penalty befitting a coward. They deserve to confront what they escaped.

A coward for wanting to still be around to help raise their families rather then being cannon fodder in some forign land? You have some odd priorities.

I say make them spend 6 months in a Baghdad ER tossin limbs into garbage bags.

What exactly will this acomplish? They already oppose the war, they already know what's going on over there in which they want no part of. Asking them to clean up the bloody messes in which everybody else is responsible for?

Is this a punnishment thing or something you think will teach them a lesson?